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Transition badged Super Ludwig imposter?

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I went back and added a note to my post to clarify my stance on this particular drum.

The term fake has different meanings. If you take a later brass shell, hammer some beds into it, put on an earlier badge and whatever other earlier parts and try to pass it off as an earlier drum, then it is a fake as far as I'm concerned. This is not the case with this drum.

Then there are the "rare Vistalites" that have shown up in recent years that are clearly made with new RCI shells, old hardware and repro badges.

A fake can be made of all genuine parts or a combination of genuine and counterfeit/repro parts. It all comes down to how it is represented and marked. People have made "repro" drums that had no distinguishing markings to show it is a repro, only to make their way onto the market represented as being real.

I seem to remember a person or two who were making "repro Dynasonics", many of which are now being sold as genuine.

Posted on 3 years ago
#11
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I do find it odd that the grommet hole appears to be slightly larger than the spacer for the grommet. It might just be lighting but it looks very much that way. As far as I know the grommets were the same size for WFL and Ludwig (the real post Conn Ludwig). So unless there was a difference, why is the hole larger if it isn't an optical illusion?

Posted on 3 years ago
#12
Posts: 617 Threads: 7
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From thin shell

I do find it odd that the grommet hole appears to be slightly larger than the spacer for the grommet. It might just be lighting but it looks very much that way. As far as I know the grommets were the same size for WFL and Ludwig (the real post Conn Ludwig). So unless there was a difference, why is the hole larger if it isn't an optical illusion?

From the location of the tone control and badge, the shell appears to be one of the last (perhaps) of the WFL shells.

Ludwig switched badge location mid trans-badge era.

FWIW; I have trans badge snare drums with badges in both locations.

Posted on 3 years ago
#13
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From the location of the tone control and badge, the shell appears to be one of the last (perhaps) of the WFL shells. Ludwig switched badge location mid trans-badge era.FWIW; I have trans badge snare drums with badges in both locations.

That doesn't address the appearance of the hole for the grommet being too large.

Posted on 3 years ago
#14
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From the location of the tone control and badge, the shell appears to be one of the last (perhaps) of the WFL shells. Ludwig switched badge location mid trans-badge era.FWIW; I have trans badge snare drums with badges in both locations.

Thanks for the additional info BEC. Is it possible this is a WFL badged shell and the transition badge was added post factory?

Posted on 3 years ago
#15
Posts: 617 Threads: 7
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From slingerfan

Thanks for the additional info BEC. Is it possible this is a WFL badged shell and the transition badge was added post factory?

I can't say.

Anything can/could happen post factory, as many posters here are opining. ( Although flanges on grommets are pretty slim evidence for authenticity of a drum, I think.)

Posted on 3 years ago
#16
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37
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I can't say. Anything can/could happen post factory, as many posters here are opining. ( Although flanges on grommets are pretty slim evidence for authenticity of a drum, I think.)

Since I never had one of these in my hand and see nothing obvious, What is holding the badge too big for the hole, in the hole. or Even if it were the same size, with no crimp over on the other end, it will fall out. Gluing a badge opens the door for swap.

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 3 years ago
#17
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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I think thin shell might be correct about the badge being taken off in order to polish the shell...maybe re-chrome, but my guess would be polished. The thing is...brass shells' chrome didn't usually flake like "ludalloy" shells, so to re-chrome a brass shell would be going to kind of an extreme.

Theory #1: Maybe the owner drilled out the old grommet with a bit that was too large, and, in doing so, enlarged the grommet hole, itself. When it came time to put in a new grommet, the owner didn't have the proper grommeting tool and messed up the flange. Since the hole was too large, he just skewed the new grommet off to one side to catch a little bit of the shell...Thus, you can see the hole on one side of the grommet, but not the other. Other than that, I can't see what's holding the badge, either...unless the badge is just glued to the shell and the grommet is inconsequential...?

Theory #2: Maybe it was a "Made Late on Friday" drum and was close enough for Ludwig!

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 3 years ago
#18
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I can't say. Anything can/could happen post factory, as many posters here are opining. ( Although flanges on grommets are pretty slim evidence for authenticity of a drum, I think.)

So if you don't make much of the back side of the grommet, what about the front side? Ever seen a grommet like that from the front? I suspect you won't find a single one.

I have looked at all of my Ludwig metal shell snares, and although I have a much smaller sample size, every one of them hangs over the edge of the spacer. The grommet on the drum in question is too short so it doesn't hang over the edge and the front side is a completely incorrect size and shape. That's good enough for me to say the badge has been off that drum.

Now what that means, we don't know but combine that with the appearance of a grommet hole which appears to be too large and it is reasonable to come to the conclusion that the drum is not in 100% original condition and that uncertainty affects the value.

Posted on 3 years ago
#19
Posts: 5176 Threads: 188
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I know that if I have a "funny" feeling about a drum, for whatever reason(s), then I will pass on it and leave it for someone else to deal with. I don't really know what's up with the badge grommet of the drum in question....but I'm not getting a 100% good feeling about it.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 3 years ago
#20
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