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Identifying Ludwig Standard ply woods

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From Drum Transit

I agree that it would be very hard to differentiate between the wood types in a blindfold test. No one is ever going to say "Oh, that drummer definitely is playing mahogany drums." And the fact that the drums are mahogany instead of maple (which I thought they were maple until now) will not change how they sound to me or how I tune and play them. So in that regard, yes, who cares?!For the first couple of decades of playing, I didn't care at all about how the drums were made, bearing edges, etc. But in the last few years, I've really become interested in how drums have been constructed over the years. So my original question was simple curiosity. At the end of the day, yes, they're still drums that should just be played, but nothing wrong with knowing what's inside the drums. I see it similar to vintage cars--at the end of the day, vintage cars get you from point A to point B, but owners of such cars love to know everything about the engines.

yep! I agree with you.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 3 years ago
#11
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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For all practical purposes vintage Ludwig shells are poplar. The mahogany and/or maple plies that "sandwich" the poplar are very thin veneers. It does seem that they play a part in the overall sound but people do seem to ignore the fact that 3 ply Ludwigs are probably 85-90% poplar despite all the attention paid to whichever of these dress up woods ended up on a particular shell. Heck, you can sand right through either of these plies very quickly if you are not extremely careful.

Posted on 3 years ago
#12
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From K.O.

For all practical purposes vintage Ludwig shells are poplar. The mahogany and/or maple plies that "sandwich" the poplar are very thin veneers. It does seem that they play a part in the overall sound but people do seem to ignore the fact that 3 ply Ludwigs are probably 85-90% poplar despite all the attention paid to whichever of these dress up woods ended up on a particular shell. Heck, you can sand right through either of these plies very quickly if you are not extremely careful.

Your percentage is off.

I measured a three ply Mahogany, Poplar, Maple shell.

It comes in at 4.75mm

The inner and outer plies are right at 1mm each.

That leave 2.75 mm for the poplar ply versus 2 mm for the other two plies. So there is more poplar than the other two, but it isn't 85% to 90%.

It's more like 58%

Posted on 3 years ago
#13
Posts: 5173 Threads: 188
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Interesting! ^^^ The only part of the shell to come in direct contact with the head (because of the rounder profile) is the poplar core, though. Either one of the veneer woods would add about the same amount of strength and rigidity. And, in the case of wrapped shells, even the veneer woods were likely not premium, blemish-free veneers. Keep in mind, for many years, drums had painted interiors!

I believe that the maple and mahogany veneers were just the result of the furniture industry at the time. Both poplar and sweet gum (Gretsch) were commonly-used secondary woods. There weren't any sonic comparisons going on in those days -just use whichever woods are commonly available and proven to easily bend without splintering.

"God is dead." -Nietzsche

"Nietzsche is dead." -God
Posted on 3 years ago
#14
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19
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From thin shell

Your percentage is off.I measured a three ply Mahogany, Poplar, Maple shell.It comes in at 4.75mmThe inner and outer plies are right at 1mm each.That leave 2.75 mm for the poplar ply versus 2 mm for the other two plies. So there is more poplar than the other two, but it isn't 85% to 90%. It's more like 58%

Probably right I was just throwing a number out there to make a point, although I think it might be closer to 70% poplar to 30% maple/mahogany. Of course I'm not getting the micrometer out to check but I did happen to take this picture last night of a 3 ply shell that was showing some separation (since glued back together) and was amazed at just how thin the outer mahogany ply was when off by itself. I guess my point was that so much fuss is made about those fancier woods and almost no one mentions the poplar content even though it makes up the bulk of the shell wall (even if it is, in fact, 42/58, in which case only 21% of a typical shell would be maple).

Regardless, they sound great, which is all that really matters.

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Posted on 3 years ago
#15
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