and this picture is from the 1948 Gretsch catalog (had it in my files T.Bruce Whittet got it from me..(me me.. 1948. Shows the A. Zildjian from Constantinople, Turkey SIZZLE..18,20.Lovely, innit?[img]http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129689&d=1580511176[/img]
Did you notice that those heavies are twice the cost of those beloved thin things ?
Heavies have a sound of there own when you play them heavy. I would seek heaviest K's because K's don't wash until you make them.
Because they're pairs :d
..Joe
Did you notice that those heavies are twice the cost of those beloved thin things ? Heavies have a sound of there own when you play them heavy. I would seek heaviest K's because K's don't wash until you make them.
Those heavy cymbals are sold in matched pairs and are intended for use in marching bands and symphonic use, not for the drum kit. Of course, you can use whatever cymbals you prefer, and for whatever purpose you'd like. It occurs to me from your various comments in this and other threads that perhaps the sound of old K's that appeals to many of us is just not your cup of tea, and may not be appropriate choices for the type of music you play. They are not really well suited for hard rock, and the thin ones might possibly not survive a rock gig.
He said he would seek the heaviest ones. Doesn't sound like he's dismissing them.
Old Ks aren't like "other" cymbals. Light Little ones (16s 18s) PLAY heavy.... In fact all old Ks PLAY HEAVY. Can't look at them like modern cymbals. Another word would be that they play.. DEADLY SERIOUS : d .
another would be HIGH OCTANE content EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE wait, no flams..
Old Ks LEFT IN the FUMES today's maker's remove that's the difference no matter how close they get (and some do get close) they're afraid ultimately to leave in the FUMES..for fear they won't sell or turn off customers in the showroom. It's a different DAY. Dislikes on facebook or twitter alone can bring a brand down. OLD K had none of those concerns.
..Joe
lol.. . old Ks play heavy..that's true...even the light ones.
..Joe
"Why doesn't anyone reverse engineer old K's?"
Because they're too busy right now trying to reverse engineer those crashed U.F.O.'s they've got. Then after that then they'll start working on the old K's. The U.F.O. project took first priority because they found out that the old K. thing was going to be the tougher nut to crack.
lololl .
..Joe
I see....
lol
Anyway...I think my level of knowledge of these details is so inferior to the experts that I am only able to formulate my questions based on that ignorance. I apologize for that, but even with my level of ignorance, I can almost always SEE the difference between a real old K and almost every other cymbal I come across. I think it has the most to do with the hammering...but also there is something about the shape...the arc, if you will (pardon me) of the bell and the shoulder....something always stands out. Like in those pics a few posts back, the first one is an old K and it has a kind of "twist" in the metal where the bell starts. I've only really seen that trait in old Ks. Again, please pardon my ignorance.
I only own one, old K. It's got a badly cracked hole and I think it's only about 13-14 inches in size. I just keep it in my china cabinet on display. If I tap on it with a stick, it sounds pretty clangy. From what other players have told me....the really nice sounding old Ks that would be great for light jazz stuff, are almost impossible to find because there were so few GOOD ones....and now they are all owned by people who know exactly what they are.
However, I also remember several years ago, when that green nitro Gretsch kit was uncovered in some nice little old lady's attic and there was a complete set of old K's that still had the paper labels on them...almost pristine condition....Anyone remember those? I think the cymbals ended up being parted from the kit which I thought was sad....but I think they went for some HIGH numbers.
...Like in those pics a few posts back, the first one is an old K and it has a kind of "twist" in the metal where the bell starts. I've only really seen that trait in old Ks....
The Old Stamp K's are less refined than most modern cymbals from a production standpoint. For instance, that "twist" you mention to is lathe chatter, and is now generally frowned upon by cymbal manufacturers. The Old K's and Old A's most likely have it because the cutting tools of the time did not hold a sharp edge like tungsten carbide or modern high speed steel cutting tools do. Personally, I find a little chatter interesting, and even appealing. I usually don't fight it, or try to fix it if it occurs. Sometimes, I even create it on purpose.
Matt
The Old Stamp K's are less refined than most modern cymbals from a production standpoint. For instance, that "twist" you mention to is lathe chatter, and is now generally frowned upon by cymbal manufacturers. The Old K's and Old A's most likely have it because the cutting tools of the time did not hold a sharp edge like tungsten carbide or modern high speed steel cutting tools do. Personally, I find a little chatter interesting, and even appealing. I usually don't fight it, or try to fix it if it occurs. Sometimes, I even create it on purpose.Matt
:Lathe chatter is a thing of beauty. I happen to be the president of the Society for the Preservation of Lathe Chatter, a non-profit tax exempt organization. I would prefer that all donations to this worthy cause be made through my personal paypal site. So remember...We musn't let lathe chatter fall victim to modern technology. So please.....give generously. (said on the verge of tears with sympathy music playing in the background)
