We could really do with some photos of these in addition to just the words. Have you got pictures of any of these? I'll have a search around my archives and see what I've got.

I recently came across one style of ink logo I hadn't seen before:

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2013/Sabian-AA-sound-control.jpg[/img]

It is like the red Sound Control HH ones.

And early AA when AA wasn't written anywhere. That is what you are calling the second generation.

Top:

[img]http://black.net.nz/drums/SabianMiniBell18.JPG[/img]

Bottom:

[img]http://black.net.nz/drums/sabianMiniBell18z.JPG[/img]

Hi, I bought a bigger stash of NOS cymbals some weeks ago. Seller said cymbals were bought in 82/83. Looks to me like an Avedis font type. There is only the cymbal type designation on the top, on the bottom cymbals look like a normal hollow logo AA. I wondered if those pre-date the hollow logos because of the font used - does anybode know?

Best,

F

Thanks for starting this thread. :) I'd love it if those in the know could associate dates with the various generations.

A timeline for Sabian will be part of the Cymbal Wiki

http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Sabian

but for now there is only a stub.

http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Sabian

I have a lot of information and lots of new discoveries since 2013 when this thread was started. I'm looking for somebody who writes well and knows the Sabian history and product lines to lend a hand. Send me a PM if you are interested. I would get to it eventually but I've got a lot of other things which have a higher priority for me. Like getting a better timeline of K Zildjian Istanbul up because RobScott has gone offline. I got the early K Zildjian & Cie Constantinople end up so people have something to refer to, but again I've got a lot of research and a lot more detail to add.

http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/K_Zildjian_Istanbul_Timeline

Cymbal.wiki started as a project to recover the original Paiste-Only wiki and I wanted to build on that style to cover other brands.

As far as the ink on those early Sabian cymbals goes the MEDIUM RIDE with the sloping out M matches the Avedis Zildjain ink of the day. So does the HEAVY RIDE as two separate stamps. You will see that in this example which word is bold is reversed. This is a 22" cymbal weighing 3870g with a the 1.5" version of the 60s stamp on it.

[img]http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129319&d=1578687833[/img]

[img]http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129321&d=1578687833[/img]

I haven't finished reviewing my records on model ink and I'm not sure whether the bold on HEAVY vs RIDE reflects different years of use in the factory. I suspect it will turn out to be that there were different stamps in use in the factory on the same day, some bold some not. What we do know at this point is that the HEAVY and RIDE were applied separately...since they appear in different places.

I've got other examples of very early Sabian ink and pre Sabian ink which straddle this time. This includes the Canadian K ink (78-81) which has an interesting mix of some Avedis Zildjian model ink stamps and some other ink stamps in what later came to be the Sabian style.

http://black.net.nz/avedis/NAK.html#CanadianK

All this and more will end up in Cymbal Wiki some day. Meanwhile about all I can say is that those "generations" from 2013 which xipa4 mentioned are a generation out of date with the research. And for the examples of early Sabian model ink which resurrected this thread I'd say yes they are 1980 give or take and predate the hollow ink model style Sabian used later on. The other thing we've established about the earliest Sabian cymbals is they didn't always put the ink logo on the bottom. That came later, and there also seems to be an increase in the size of the Sabian logo over time. What is on the bottom of your cymbals coll3ctor? Any ink at all?

Thanks a lot. I wish I could contribute more, apart from buying and uploading (sadly, non-native speaker :( )

Both are looking like this

[IMG]https://s19.directupload.net/images/200110/hqphz4q7.jpg[/IMG]

Best,

F

Thanks coll3ctor. Buying and uploading is a great help. That is the bottom ink that I used to think was the earliest form. Then others came along claiming that the earliest ones didn't have the Sabian logo bottom ink. Then there were others who said it was there but smaller. Now I see I'm going to have to go back and work out just what this means:

and more importantly where it comes from. Xipa4 is well known for copying (and sometimes changing) what others have written without giving any references back to the original. It is possible that the ones with no bottom Sabian logo were around just long enough for a Drum catalog shoot before the Sabian ink logos were applied to the bottom. It is also important to distinguish between HH and AA (or pre AA from the time before it was a named series) because the ink styles and changes are different. Alas as you know I'm in the middle of other projects and I just haven't got time to summarize all the Sabian stuff I've got. But there are things most people don't seem to have seen. Like the Flange Ride which is the precursor to the Sound Control series which is actually an A Zildjian model known from about 1948-1955.

http://www.cymbal.wiki/wiki/Zil_Flange_Ride

That link includes one image of the 20" Medium Heavy Flange which weighs 2158g according to the owner. That was pending getting the Sabian section of the wiki up and going. Then there is the CUPLESS STUDIO RIDE (this is also a 20" and shows the smaller Sabian logo on the bottom). And here is an early HH example which has the word Sabian in that Sabian font rather than the Sabian ink logo. All of these and more have yet to be put into some sort of context and timeline.

I don't see a "1980 Slingerland catalog", but I've got a scan of a reputed 1983 catalog and p28 shows this family portrait which may be the source of the discussion. What I see looks like Sabian hadn't put ink on most of these except for the top hat which has the logo (although the word SABIAN looks hollow so not a solid font). There are hints of model logos on the cymbals pictured with drum kits, but given the quality of the scan I have it is hard to be sure what they say and what font they are in. There are a few kit images where the underside of the cymbal is visible (just) and in one on p21 the familiar Sabian ink logo is there.

My scan comes from

http://www.drumarchive.com/slingerland

but maybe somebody has a true 1980 or a better scan. I also have a 1979 catalog and Slngerland were still offering Zildjian then, along with the Italian Kashian (UFIP brand).

I have this one, I suspect it to be German but mine does not say made in Germany under Sabian and never did, I looked with a "J..ewlers loop". It is the only cymbal I know came with my kit. I had it in 79 to this day. No ink on the bottom.

When my computer recognizes my phone camera I'll post mine.

Has anyone contacted Sabian directly? I contacted them a couple of years ago regarding a set of AA flat hats...They replied quickly with the info I was looking for...

Cheers