BR loved Philly Joe..said greatest 'fours' he ever heard were in 'Billy Boy'. Hired him for his big band to drum as he went out front to sing 1951. Made favorable comments over the years about Tony Williams. About Elvin Jones.
fun article
http://jazzprofiles.blogspot.com/2008/08/wonder-of-philly-joe-jones-part-2.html
..Joe
However, I was surprised to hear him say in an interview that he liked The Beatles.
He did do some of their songs over the years, but only the more serious ones. He actually thought a lot of their stuff was silly...and he was no fan of Ringo at all! He said he liked the Beatles in spite of Ringo!
Buddy Rich was a great drummer in his own right...but whenever he opened his mouth to speak, he was often very opinionated and self centered -regardless of what the subject was....but especially when it came to alternative styles of music and the drummers associated with them. It's one thing to respect his drumming ability but...
I was on tour years ago, in South Florida, and after my gig, I went down to the beach to have a drink at one of those grass tiki hut lounge things. As I sat there, chatting with the guys in the band, the name "Jaco Pastorius" came up. The bartender happened to over hear us and came over to ask, "Is he that bass player guy?" And we all kinda chuckled like...DUH! And the bartender said that Jaco was notorious for coming down to the beach, drunk, and trying to pick fights with people. He said that Jaco was a real SOB (to put it nicely) and that everyone who worked down there hated him! Ironically, a few months later, Jaco's personality issues likely caused his death because he got in a fight with the wrong dude and the guy ended him. I loved Jaco's playing....beautiful, unique talent in the world....but other than that talent.....tsk tsk No one to look up to as a role model....Same for Buddy Rich. -loved his playing....couldn't care less about his opinions.
Buddy Rich was a great drummer in his own right...but whenever he opened his mouth to speak, he was often very opinionated and self centered -regardless of what the subject was....but especially when it came to alternative styles of music and the drummers associated with them. It's one thing to respect his drumming ability but...I was on tour years ago, in South Florida, and after my gig, I went down to the beach to have a drink at one of those grass tiki hut lounge things. As I sat there, chatting with the guys in the band, the name "Jaco Pastorius" came up. The bartender happened to over hear us and came over to ask, "Is he that bass player guy?" And we all kinda chuckled like...DUH! And the bartender said that Jaco was notorious for coming down to the beach, drunk, and trying to pick fights with people. He said that Jaco was a real SOB (to put it nicely) and that everyone who worked down there hated him! Ironically, a few months later, Jaco's personality issues likely caused his death because he got in a fight with the wrong dude and the guy ended him. I loved Jaco's playing....beautiful, unique talent in the world....but other than that talent.....tsk tsk No one to look up to as a role model....Same for Buddy Rich. -loved his playing....couldn't care less about his opinions.
My personality is polar opposite of a guy like Buddy, but I never reached greatness in anything like Buddy did either. He was single minded for sure, and nothing got in the way of his drumming, including even his wives.
For sure I'm a better all-around person than Buddy was, but sometimes I think to be singularly great, really great, in any one thing, you almost have to be an arrogant SOB like BR was. Many of the greatest in many fields of endeavor are like Buddy. (of course there are exceptions)
If you try and be good at everything, you probably won't be great at anything.
My personality is polar opposite of a guy like Buddy, but I never reached greatness in anything like Buddy did either. He was single minded for sure, and nothing got in the way of his drumming, including even his wives. For sure I'm a better all-around person than Buddy was, but sometimes I think to be singularly great, really great, in any one thing, you almost have to be an arrogant SOB like BR was. Many of the greatest in many fields of endeavor are like Buddy. (of course there are exceptions)If you try and be good at everything, you probably won't be great at anything.
JimmySticks!
Just wanted to let you know that there were no "wives" ... Buddy was only married to Marie .. ( 1953 ) .. and the product of that union was their daughter Cathy about a year later. Only one wife, and they were married 'till he passed in April of 1987. Course we could also say he might have been married to his drums too ... but Buddy would most certainly debate that!
Tommyp
Inside Gretsch
[ame]https://youtu.be/kl4lmxeLCLw[/ame]
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[img]https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s---a9sHPTL--/f_auto,t_large/v1556318260/ndapnkzdwpcj29u4rhxe.jpg[/img]
[img]https://images.reverb.com/image/upload/s--v1HyO0So--/f_auto,t_large/v1576361708/hkyps5ztqvnhrw3uvww7.jpg[/img]
In Vintage Build, bd muffler is on the front because they ship with a coatedPS3 on the batter.
So if you choose to, dampen also, the front 1 ply coated reso, you can..
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..Joe
Drum Bob - I know that you are an accomplished rock drummer and author of a good book on the subject. Jazz drumming is a whole different animal with a special "feel" and touch that needs to be developed and mastered to play and "swing" with that jazz feel. With your extensive background I'm kind of shocked that you don't "get" that or apparently even appreciate it.Doug
Let me explain further, thank you for the nice comments, and I understand what you're saying. Bop drumming is just so far removed from what I like, sorry to say. I don't care for the indefinite, nebulous stuff I've heard from people like Shelly Manne, Elvin Jones, Tony Williams and others. It just doesn't dig into the beat far enough for me. Art Blakey dug in hard. He was an exception.
I had a friendly argument once with a jazz drummer about dropping bombs on the bass drum. He couldn't or wouldn't play four on the floor and thought it was crazy to do so. I told him he didn't have a grasp of swing era drumming, where everybody played four on the bass drum, so you had a solid bottom end in sync with the bass player. His response was, "Oh no, I can't do that. Jazz is all about dropping bombs, hitting bass drum accents. You keep time on the ride cymbal" I told him that I do what Gene did: play fours and drop bombs in between. He didn't get it at all, and I cut off the conversation before it got weird.
And JR, I know what improvisation is all about, and I too play in rock bands and have done so since 1967. A few of those bands liked to jam, to take the music out somewhere new. It wasn't all cut & dried every time. I can play bop style drums if need be, but it's simply not for me. I'd rather play swing style, like Gene, and watch people tap their feet and dance if they want to. Jazz has become way too self conscious, IMO. It's become a serious "art form," unfortunately. In the 30's and 40's, jazz was the popular music of the day. Today, it's perhaps the least popular music in existence. Why? because it's over most people's heads and too hard to comprehend. Jazz is even less popular than opera. Or, it's been bastardized into what people call "smooth jazz," an abomination. I look around my area, and there is virtually NO PLACE for jazz musicians to play and make a buck. There's still Shanghai Jazz in Madison, NJ, but that's about it. All the other jazz clubs are gone; Trumpets in Montclair, Gulliver's in Lincoln Park. They couldn't survive. You have to go to Manhattan to hear jazz, and that's a PITA in all honesty.
In 2006, I was in San Francisco and went into a Greek restaurant to hear a jazz group; guitar, piano, upright bass, drums and girl singer. They were very good and played a wide variety of jazz standards, pop standards and bossa nova. These folks were great players. It was jazz, but still accessible to the average listener. They asked me to sit in and I did gladly. When asked what I'd like to play, I suggested Charlie Barnet's "Cherokee." I played brushes, with four on the floor bass drum feathered softly. The guitarist and I traded fours. It was a great experience and they were very pleased with what I played. I'd love to have a traditional swing group. But where would we gig?
I had a friend, same age as me, who was a good rock drummer who got into jazz, and that's all he really wanted to do. I called him once to sub in my band (I played guitar in that band) against my better judgement, but I was stuck and needed somebody. I gave him the set list well in advance. The night of the gig, he showed up late, with light weight, dark cymbals that didn't cut through the mix and had obviously put in zero time shedding the songs. When I have to explain "Born To be Wild" to a 60 year old guy who grew up with that song, something is wrong. He sounded like a jazz player trying to play rock. It was a joke. He couldn't do it. I haven't spoken to him since. This same guy once went on and on with me about how modern jazz drumming was so spiritual and deep, as he complained about having no gigs. I smiled and nodded my head and then tuned him out. Then, I went home and put on a Buddy Rich album.
Bottom line: I'm just a rock drummer with a strong background in traditional swing music. I try to make the rock music I play swing, without bludgeoning the beat to death. Ringo does it. Charlie Watts does it. Kenney Jones does it. Al Jackson did it. That's what works for me.
I'm still not, shall we say, enamored with Gretsch drums after watching that video. First, the sound of Ambassadors on toms grates on my nerves like nails on a blackboard. They sound so metallic and far removed from the warm and fat tone I like on toms. Second, those little jazz size drums really don't work for me. I only keep a set of 20/12/14 drums on hand for when I'm called upon to use them on a small space gig by the bandleader. 18" bass drums are a joke as far as I'm concerned. Third, I'm absolutely not a fan of the jazz played by the drummers who used and endorsed Gretsch drums back when they were made in Brooklyn, so I have a built-in bias. All those bop guys like Mel Lewis, Tony Williams and Elvin Jones do nothing for me at all, sorry to say. A few drummers I know think Elvin was the greatest, but I don't "get" him either. Elvin sounded like someone threw him and his drums down a flight of stairs. I remember that Zildian ran a tribute ad after Elvin died saying he had the, "Swingingest beat." I almost laughed out loud at that statement. Elvin's drumming always sounded nervous to me.
Just wow! Thats all I can say.
Actually I'm glad not all drummers care for the great gretsch sound, That means more of them for us that do. Clapping Happy2
