I'm still not, shall we say, enamored with Gretsch drums after watching that video. First, the sound of Ambassadors on toms grates on my nerves like nails on a blackboard. They sound so metallic and far removed from the warm and fat tone I like on toms.

Second, those little jazz size drums really don't work for me. I only keep a set of 20/12/14 drums on hand for when I'm called upon to use them on a small space gig by the bandleader. 18" bass drums are a joke as far as I'm concerned.

Third, I'm absolutely not a fan of the jazz played by the drummers who used and endorsed Gretsch drums back when they were made in Brooklyn, so I have a built-in bias. All those bop guys like Mel Lewis, Tony Williams and Elvin Jones do nothing for me at all, sorry to say. A few drummers I know think Elvin was the greatest, but I don't "get" him either. Elvin sounded like someone threw him and his drums down a flight of stairs. I remember that Zildian ran a tribute ad after Elvin died saying he had the, "Swingingest beat." I almost laughed out loud at that statement. Elvin's drumming always sounded nervous to me.

That's the first time I'd seen negative comments about all those drummers you mentioned, they were some of the best in the world.

And what's up with the coated Ambassador's on toms comment? I could understand if you said pinstripe or hydraulic heads. I'm curious what heads you use and who you consider to be great drummers.

Drum Bob - I know that you are an accomplished rock drummer and author of a good book on the subject. Jazz drumming is a whole different animal with a special "feel" and touch that needs to be developed and mastered to play and "swing" with that jazz feel. With your extensive background I'm kind of shocked that you don't "get" that or apparently even appreciate it.

Doug

If you like that style of jazz, they were great players. I have no affinity for what they do. Jazz ceased being of interest to me with the outset of bop in '40's. The only one of that group of bop drummers I like was Art Blakey. I'm a big swing era fan, and like those drummers; Gene, Buddy, Big Sid Catlett, Dave Tough, Papa Joe Jones, Cliff Leeman, Moe Purtill, Frankie Carlson, etc. When jazz stopped being dance music, it left me behind. No interest. I was listening to and liking my parents' big band records when I was thirteen and started my drumming life with that music, later branching into rock, blues, R&B, country, etc.

Ambassadors on toms make them sound like tin cans. Listen to that video that was posted. On toms, I like a warm, fat thud, with plenty of resonance. I generally don't like Remo heads anyway, but prefer Evans. The new UV-1s are the sound I've had in my head for years, but I also like EC-2s. Both give me that warmer, fatter sound.

DrumBob, I agree with you on Remo/Evans. What are your thoughts on G1 coateds? Do you think they are too close in sound to Ambassadors?

Bob... Your comment about losing interest in jazz music that is not dance music resonated with me. I have been trying for years to put into simple words why I have had difficulty in relating to jazz drumming from the years following the big band days. There have been a few exceptions to that--namely Blakey and Morello. As for drum heads, I've never been all that particular as long as I can tweak the sound I get to be a thud without very much ringiness after the initial thud. I'm a lifelong proponent of internal tone controls. My recent 1966 Rogers set came to me with all new Weatherking Vintage A on both mounted toms, Ambassador vintage coated on the floor tom, Evans eq 2 on the bass drum, and Evans Dry st on the snare. I haven't even looked at the resonant heads on the toms and snare because the drums sound right to me as they are.

I get it, your an Evans guy, never liked them, Remo all day and everyday.

Those bop drummers did a lot of improvising, music isn't just about making someone want to dance. I've been playing in r&r cover bands for years, played a lot of dance type songs with a strong back beat, ya, it's fun, but I get more satisfaction when we'd do a song and take it to a different place, to improvise is an expression of ones soul. It can't be copied, it's there and it's gone, the next time you improvise the same song, it's totally new, maybe better, may be not as good, but it's an expression that only you feel.

Buddy Rich would second your opinion Bob.

He was no fan of Bebop, he actually hated it and thought it was the ruination if jazz. He thought it was just a gaggle of musicians with no timing, feel or swing playing what they wanted, when they wanted. None of the drummers mentioned were on his list of favorites either.

He eventually came around to like bop a little, but it was never going to be his thing.

Personal taste then, I guess. *shrugs shoulders*

Buddy Rich didn't like anything other than what he played and others who played similar music, I've even heard him cut down classical music. However, I was surprised to hear him say in an interview that he liked The Beatles.