Now here's a wild stamp era- soundwise. Bill knows. the ol Type IV. a or b.

You know they look like type III's (agree? yes no?) but seemed to have been made out of concrete.

I call em mono-tone. (I have an 18 and a 16) and I hear the 20s and 22s..

Mono-tone.

Very much unlike any other era----even tho--- last of; that connection---the cup etc--- with threes.

Very strong mono-tone none of the "butterfly breath" of the III era. Unless I've not heard enough III's.. (I have one a 14"-- beautiful as top hh)

IV are strict stiff monotones- hard to figure why it was, with this era. Visually can't see why

But everyone of them seems same mono.

Shame (on Chad) we've lost track of all our Holic members- many European for example kalmarz here- has his (one of his) Type IV 22" up on bay..

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOWMoyh-JiA"]22" K Istanbul old stamp IVb, 2345 grams, FOR SALE 3000 EUR, YOU CAN EMAIL TO kalmarjazz@gmail.com - YouTube[/ame]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/22-K-ISTANBUL-OLD-STAMP-IVB-1958-59-RIDE-2345-GRAMS-NEW-SOUNDFILE-VIDEO/323798642021?hash=item4b63e72d65:g:NfwAAOSwx95a9w8-

Yep. Chad broke up the band ;) ..lol)

Sounds pretty good on the short take. But it's all scribbled on, He wants top $$ for a scribbled on ruined cymbal.

He always asks a Lot; still a good guy; and I think he's Found and retrieved all the old Ks sitting in the Churches in Eastern and Central Europe. (somebodys gotta do it...)

Think he lives 25m from Transylvania;

With the big U.S. music rush in the 40's and 50's and 60's, Do you think there are more K's in Europe than the States ?

Hope it just a poor recording but I don't care for this cymbal. Can't hear the stick because of the overwhelming wash.

Not an impressive recording at all. I just wanted to put something in the Type IV category. It's all messed up.

But if you know "IV" s at all you can hear the "IV" in that even with the stink recording... the type four mono-tone.

Even with a perfect recording- a IV alone- few are impressive; Get it in a band? And the Stick Sound is so dominant- you end up relying on it as your Time keeper- metronome- like few others.

IV's don't sound well alone but in a band- filled in- by the other instruments: Look out.

Very contained-stiff sound mono sound.

But that's exactly something to keep a group/band/ the music/ in -line..

Weird. Nothing like them.

I have an 18 and would be scared of a 20 definitely frightened by a 22.

Altho I would entertain a 20. 22 no way. You'd have to be driving an orchestra..

that's what IV are about

here's another one ( 2 soundfiles same cymbal) type IV can sorta hear the "mono tone" I call them.

https://soundcloud.com/user-428559521/22k-oldstampa2710g-offmic

they're just tightly- focused intensely unlike another K stamp

https://soundcloud.com/user-428559521/22-k-old-stamp-a-2600gmp3

narrow bandwidth Potent intense just narrow contained stiff..

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Zildjian-22-Old-Stamp-IVa-1957-58-2710g-SOUNDFILE/401770079356?hash=item5d8b5ce47c:g:5nUAAOSwuTNcxoEk

You see, I figure there's "6" Sound -Types of old Ks. And they follow exactly the stamp. (When the stamp changed the sound (and build) changed.

New Stamps. Intermediates, Type 4s, Type III's.

Now Type I and II's I'm not as familiar and don't know how I's and II's "relate" (soundwise + build) to III's.

So either 5 or 6 consistent " Sound Types" correlating with the stamp (in itself amazing).

Which led me to a theory: thruout a Stamp Era- the same "team" or general "foreman"- built that run. For the years.

The Stamp " change" correlated with a "team" change with a slight different "style/approach"...

In other words after 2-3 years they "threw" the IV team out ( dang guys didn't show up on time- something like that- drank too much)

And a whole new group- maybe including foreman- maybe even including change of ownership of the Co. letterhead- and then that Style ( say Intermediate ran for what 6 or so years...

Then another- team change- stamp change- style change..

Within an era the cymbal were so consistent in build (sound details accompanying)

that it was like 6 different companies! from (what) 1940 to 1978..

Same Premises; but different people; for the "run" of that insignia/ Stamp..

~

File this under " Why did the Stamp Change and the Cymbal along with it exactly" category.

that evolution could have been because, foreman's, team's, someone overseeing the operation, changed, simultaneously)

~

"Within an era, they were so build consistent" .

Then that changes with an Insignia change. And the build rides that era until the next one.

~

I can hardly explain the evolution- I, II, III, IV, Intermediate, New Stamp- any other way.

Or I have not heard - why the stamp change accompanied a build change- why didn't they "evolve' without a stamp change; or evolve in the "middle" of an Stamp era..

It didn't work that way; all these years we've been on the net; a IV or an Intermediate or any of the other 5/6 eras; - is the same no matter where one pops up around the globe.

Had to be 6 ---over time---different Shops (crews over time) under One Roof.

Either that or it was miraculous. Miraculous Timing.

Just like what their cymbals deliver. Perfect timing.