I've sent you a PM

Kev

Progress report:

Concerning Imgur: it's impossible to get registered with them and besides that they are about as discreet as Facebook with information which isn't acceptable to me.

And Dropbox is just another "https" problem.

I'm sorry for the delay but I'll have something for everybody to see tonight.

Here they both are:

[img]https://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/lizziesstuff/one%20off%20pair.jpg[/img]

These aren't anything like each other, both are unique. You'll notice where I've pointed out the etching lines in the Arabic script, similar to what's seen in a type I trans stamp, but the shapes of these characters are not like on any other Avedis trademark. They have a stylized shape not like the standard type. By "stylized" I mean they can be recognized as characters that we've seen before, but with different bends and curves. The dots are different too. The English part looks to be about as large as what's seen on the later 1960's era trademarks. There is no etching in that part; only the Arabic has that.

The Arabic script on Zenstat's has has different characters in a mix with more familiar parts that are uniquely stylized as well. It almost looks like a conglomeration between the Avedis and the old Constantinople K scripts combined. This one really is crazy/strange/beautiful. The English part on this one is the very 1st type of trademark that they ever used which I call the "early 1930's type A", and the "signature" type confirms that. Both of these need to be filed under the "W.T.F." category, because that was precisely my reaction upon seeing both for the first time.

I asked Zen. if Avedis stamped the 14 in the cymbal, he did not reply. Do you think Avedis stamped the 14 in it.

I ask because Avedis didn't buy/make the numerical stamp key just to stamp 14 in that one cymbal, so what else did they stamp numerically? I have never seen any numbers stamped with the logo ever before in all my time here on this site.

I can't offer any informed explanation myself, so anything that I would say be only opinion. But it would be nice to know if this is the actually diameter of this particular cymbal. I have seen after-maket impressions done by the military like "U.S." and some others even show military unit designations.

Thanks for the photo Bill. Yes both of these are certainly in the "W.T.F" category: Wonderful Trademark Find.

The 14 which is on that 14" cymbal is the only one I've seen in that style, and who knows if it was stamped in the Avedis Zildjian factory or not. There isn't any evidence and it remains a one off. I have reviewed the information I've got on the military markings here:

http://black.net.nz/avedis/anomalies.html#military

The later styles of Military Markings include diameter but in a different style, and they include the " for inches and H and M which might be weight classes.

The section on the 1954 stamp which follows the Military Markings review is needing an update since this thread:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=64315

but I'm not sure when I'll have time to get to that. Grandson minding duty (fun) and health problems (not fun) have greatly reduced the time I can spend at a computer.

That's a good one, I like that.