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Ludwig 1400 Cymbal Stand Tilters...5/16" instead of 3/8"?

Posts: 1685 Threads: 529

Greetings,

I have some MIJ copies of the Ludwig 1400's. The tilter sections were either missing or damaged on them, so I use Ludwig 1400's as replacement tilters, I have done so successfully a few times in the past.

The MIJ copies are very similar to the 1400's. Although the bottom and middle tube sizes are slightly different (7/8" bottom and 3/4" middle on the MIJ vs. 3/4" bottom and 5/8" middle on the 1400), the top rods are the same diameter on both stands, 3/8". The only difference is that the 1400 is a solid rod, and the MIJ is hollow. Like I said, I've used the 1400 tilter sections on those MIJ Stands before with no issues.

I found a 1400 tilter on the sleazebay, and to my surprise, it doesn't fit. The hole is too small to accept a 3/8" rod. I measured and took a photo attached below. The opening is 5/16", not 3/8" (or 6/16"). Did Ludwig ever use a 5/16" rod for a 1400 cymbal stand? This is definitely a Ludwig, not a knockoff.

So now I'm faced with a dilemma. Do I:

A) Widen the hole on the tilter so that it fits a 3/8" rod? Or,

B) Go to my local hardware store and find a 5/16" solid rod to use a replacement for the top section of my MIJ? A 5/16" rod will still fit into the top section, because the wing screw that adjusts the height tightens directly against the rod, so it won't matter that the rod is a little bit smaller in diameter. I know those solid rods at hardware stores are not shiny chrome, but that's okay in this case, because the MIJ stands are pretty dull anyway, so it won't look out of place.

EDIT: I just tried the tilter on one of my "official" 1400 top sections (on the bottom, because there is already a tilter on top), and the tilter is too small for the rod. I also tried it on my new Tama Classic Stand (which has the exact same specs as a 1400-again on the bottom end because there is already a tilter on top) and the tilter was again too small for that top section.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

V

2 attachments
1400.jpg
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1400 2.jpg
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Posted on 6 years ago
#1
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19

The top end of the upper solid rod for a Ludwig 1400 stand is turned down to a smaller diameter and sort of splined as well. The connection is just a friction fit. You can pop the tilter off a 1400 with a bit of effort. For years I used my 1400 stands as cowbell stands and had popped the tilters off and used the top rods upside down in the stand.

Most vintage add-on tilters are set up to fit a 1/4" rod which was the typical diameter of the top of pre-tilter cymbal stands. The rods were usually 3/8ths but they were turned down to 1/4" and threaded at the top to hold the cymbal and wing nut and the tilters were designed to add the tilt function to these existing stands/holders.

Posted on 6 years ago
#2
Posts: 1685 Threads: 529

Thanks K.O.

I am aware it was just a pressure fit at the factory.

However, that doesn't explain why the Ludwig 1400 tilters worked on my MIJ stuff before. I fixed up two of them last year. For some reason, I had two 1400 tilters in my parts tray. I know they were definitely Ludwig, because they had the "Mickey Mouse" wing screw and just by the design. Both of them fit perfectly on the MIJ top section. I also can verify that the MIJ top sections and the Ludwig 1400 top sections are the same (except solid vs. hollow). An official Ludwig 1400 top section will fit into the MIJ middle section and vice versa.

Did I just get lucky? Had a previous owner widened out the 1400 tilter holes? I just know that they worked perfectly for me last year.

Posted on 6 years ago
#3
Posts: 2010 Threads: 19

From vyacheslav

Thanks K.O.I am aware it was just a pressure fit at the factory.However, that doesn't explain why the Ludwig 1400 tilters worked on my MIJ stuff before. I fixed up two of them last year. For some reason, I had two 1400 tilters in my parts tray. I know they were definitely Ludwig, because they had the "Mickey Mouse" wing screw and just by the design. Both of them fit perfectly on the MIJ top section. I also can verify that the MIJ top sections and the Ludwig 1400 top sections are the same (except solid vs. hollow). An official Ludwig 1400 top section will fit into the MIJ middle section and vice versa.Did I just get lucky? Had a previous owner widened out the 1400 tilter holes? I just know that they worked perfectly for me last year.

Hard to say, I haven't torn apart every 1400 I've owned or come in contact with so I guess I can only truly speak to the design of my original 1400 model stands which were from around 1973. Also the tilter on a shell mount cymbal holder looks the same as the one on a 1400 but is fixed inside of the tube via roll pins and may have a different lower casting so there could be more than one design.

Posted on 6 years ago
#4
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