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Sneaky artificial inflation in vintage drum market?

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After finishing up the restoration of my 70's North kit, I did a cursory search of eBay and Reverb to get an idea of what my kit might bring. I found only one North kit for sale (white one on Reverb) and they want over $3K for it. If you take a close look at the pics in the ad you will see that the kit is in pretty sorry condition. Lugs replaced with Ludwig Standard lugs, mismatched ugly heads, extra holes drilled in the shells prominently displayed etc. It's almost as if the seller wanted to make the kit look bad on purpose...which got me to thinking...someone could post an ad like that (free of charge) as a decoy and then when they post another kit in better shape (or even the same kit spruced up a bit) a prospective buyer would inevitably do a little research, find the decoy ad, and think they were hitting a home run if they get one for $2K.

Maybe this is just a NO SHIZ SHERLOCK moment for me?

Stop stringing and tuning your instrument, make music now.
-fortune cookie

Vintage Drums:
1970ish Ludwig Standard Avocado Strata downbeat
1970ish Star Acrylic 22,12,13,16
1950’s Gretsch tympani 26.5
19?? Sonor roto-tympani 13x12
70’s Ludwig Standard alum 14x5 snare
90’s Arbiter Adv. Tuning 12x5 snare
90’s Ludwig blackrolite 14x5 snare

Modern Drums:
Erie Drums 1-ply sycamore shell kit 18,10,13
Erie 1-ply maple 14x5 snare
Tama S.L.P. Acrylic 14x6.5 snare
Posted on 6 years ago
#1
Guest
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Yes it happens, although I can't say how frequently. When you have monitored thousands of sales for price research as I have you start to spot these events. Some people also have multiple eBay accounts so they would put something up for sale under one account and then use one of their other accounts to put up the second (less expensive) item. Other people maintain accounts just for buying (never selling) so you can't spot what prices they buy things for which they then turn around and sell a month later. Except that I spot them sometimes because the item may have distinguishing features which I pick up in my tracking.

I've spotted certain sellers who may have a drum or cymbal marked "sold" which later goes back up for sale under one of their other accounts. In the past two years something has gone funny with the eBay outcome codes so you can't even rely on something which says "sold" as actually having sold. But in some cases this may be the seller trying to push the price envelope by appearing to make a sale at a higher than expected price. I've reported such behavior to eBay but I no longer bother because they have never acknowledged my reports and apparently never done any investigation. Multiple accounts are allowed under eBay rules, although you are not allowed to use "shill bidding" which is where you bid on your own item using a second account in order to drive up the price.

All of this sort of thing is why you should only use completed sales for estimated value. In some cases where an item sells for a "silly high" price based on my previous recorded sales of similar items I flag the item in my database to recheck for feedback before I believe that it did actually sell at that price.

Most of my tracking work is still on eBay so that's the system I'm most familiar with. But it is a fair bet that similar things happen on other platforms...and as a statistician I don't usually bet.

Posted on 6 years ago
#2
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Thank you Zenstat!

Your analysis, as always...spot on. I go way back on eBay too (not in drums) there have always been con -men, -women and, -children trying to shoot angles.

Stop stringing and tuning your instrument, make music now.
-fortune cookie

Vintage Drums:
1970ish Ludwig Standard Avocado Strata downbeat
1970ish Star Acrylic 22,12,13,16
1950’s Gretsch tympani 26.5
19?? Sonor roto-tympani 13x12
70’s Ludwig Standard alum 14x5 snare
90’s Arbiter Adv. Tuning 12x5 snare
90’s Ludwig blackrolite 14x5 snare

Modern Drums:
Erie Drums 1-ply sycamore shell kit 18,10,13
Erie 1-ply maple 14x5 snare
Tama S.L.P. Acrylic 14x6.5 snare
Posted on 6 years ago
#3
Guest
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There's a Yamaha pedal on eBay. It's an auction, and within a couple of days, it's gotten some 35 bids, bringing the price up to above what I think is reasonable. I looked at the bid history, and most of the bids are by the same person, consecutively. Why would someone bid against themselves? Am i missing something? This sounds like "shill bidding" that zenstat was referring to. What's up with that?

Posted on 6 years ago
#4
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Is there a reserve? Could be someone trying to find the "ceiling". Also may be automatic bidding. Click "show automatic bids" and it should make more sense. You can't outbid yourself.

Posted on 6 years ago
#5
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From slingerfan

Is there a reserve? Could be someone trying to find the "ceiling". Also may be automatic bidding. Click "show automatic bids" and it should make more sense. You can't outbid yourself.

It didn't say anything about a reserve, but how can automatic bidding just keep jacking the price up? It seems like it's the same thing as bidding against yourself....forgive me, I'm not very eBay savvy.

Posted on 6 years ago
#6
Posts: 5550 Threads: 576
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That’s why I have not sold on eBay in years I had been there since the start it’s not for me any more . I’ll stay on reverb and the face book one page.

April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob
1967 super classic obp





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
Posted on 6 years ago
#7
Posts: 977 Threads: 124
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From jaghog

That’s why I have not sold on eBay in years I had been there since the start it’s not for me any more . I’ll stay on reverb and the face book one page.

Hey Gary,

I sell only on ebay. I do not like Reverb since there are so many ridiculous listings that are way too high on top of being poorly written + having poor photos ... which to me seems like seller's looking for suckers. This of course happens on ebay too but it's not as easy to fool buyers.

Seems like there are no SOLD listings available on REVERB. They only way to find them is to do a google search for item X, look at the photos of them and then select any that were from REVERB.

On ebay : seems even for BIN items where offers were taken and you know that the asking price wasn't fetched that the listing shows that the asking price is what the item sold for.

Posted on 6 years ago
#8
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From 8upwithit

It didn't say anything about a reserve, but how can automatic bidding just keep jacking the price up? It seems like it's the same thing as bidding against yourself....forgive me, I'm not very eBay savvy.

You are not and can not bid against yourself. Automatic bidding insures you only pay the minimum required to be the high bidder. When someone else bids the automatic bidding bids in minimum increments until a high bidder is established. Example: You see a Yamaha pedal and the opening bid is $1.00. You are willing to spend $10.00 so you bid $10.00. No one else has bid so with automatic bidding you are now the high bidder at $2.00, the minimum required to be the high bidder. Now I see the pedal and I am willing to spend $20.00. I bid $20.00 and with automatic bidding I become the high bidder at $11.00, the minimum required to outbid you. The auto bidding moves in minimum increments until a high bidder is established so it will look as though we bid multiple times when we only bid once. Click on "Show automatic bids" to see the incremental bidding. There is another bidder.

Posted on 6 years ago
#9
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From slingerfan

You are not and can not bid against yourself. Automatic bidding insures you only pay the minimum required to be the high bidder. When someone else bids the automatic bidding bids in minimum increments until a high bidder is established. Example: You see a Yamaha pedal and the opening bid is $1.00. You are willing to spend $10.00 so you bid $10.00. No one else has bid so with automatic bidding you are now the high bidder at $2.00, the minimum required to be the high bidder. Now I see the pedal and I am willing to spend $20.00. I bid $20.00 and with automatic bidding I become the high bidder at $11.00, the minimum required to outbid you. The auto bidding moves in minimum increments until a high bidder is established so it will look as though we bid multiple times when we only bid once. Click on "Show automatic bids" to see the incremental bidding. There is another bidder.

I understand now. I wasn't in the bidding, just seemed weird to me. Thanks for the info!

Posted on 6 years ago
#10
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