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Is this a 1930s custom made A Zildjian?

Posts: 89 Threads: 9

I recently purchased a pre-WWII 13.75 inch A Zildjian cymbal that was described as "very light". I got it intending to pair it with another as a set of hi hats. That ain't gonna happen as it only weighs 501 grams and is waaay too thin for my giant heavy foot.

I have NEVER seen a 14 inch cymbal this thin and after checking it out I'm thinking it was a one off / hand made / special order piece. I'll lay out my evidence below.

Am I nuts?

1. Cymbal is 13 3/4 across one axis but only 13 9/16 on the other. There's no sign of it being trimmed anywhere.

2. The bell isn't perfectly centered on the cymbal across the long axis but it is centered across the shorter axis (more evidence it hasn't been trimmed). Along the long axis, the cymbal measures exactly 5 inches away from the bell but only 4 13/16 toward the other edge.

3. #s 1 and 2 give the cymbal a slight (and perfect) tilt of about 6-8 degrees toward the drummer.

4. It is SUPER THIN and flexes very very easily. It's the lightest cymbal of this size I've ever seen. (I would LOVE to see lighter examples, though)

5. The last photo (following post) will even show that the hole is also slightly off center within the bell.

My hand made 1st stamp K Zildjian shares all of those same characteristics except the 501 grams part. It just doesn't look like a cymbal that would have come off A Zildjian's machine process.

So, what do you folks think? Have I lost it or is there a distinct possibility this cymbal was made for a pro or maybe a recording studio?

Pete

Posted on 6 years ago
#1
Posts: 89 Threads: 9

The bell close-up.

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Posted on 6 years ago
#2
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37

In the first pic. it looks hand hammered to me. It' not perfectly round. No two hammer swings are the same.

All I can can see.

Others will tell you more.

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 6 years ago
#3
Posts: 89 Threads: 9

From OddBall

In the first pic. it looks hand hammered to me. It' not perfectly round. No two hammer swings are the same. All I can can see. Others will tell you more.

Yep. But my big blind spot on this question is that I have no idea if A Zildjian did custom stuff. I’m kind of wondering if there are lots of other examples out there.

Posted on 6 years ago
#4
Posts: 6170 Threads: 255

This cymbal is a pre Trans stamp and also known as a Second Stamp model. Have owned and still own many from this era. Most are really light (paper thin) or really heavy. I've got a First Stamp 14". It weighs 610 grams. It is much too light for a hi hat and makes a nice splash or paper thin crash/effects cymbal. It does not even lay flat, it is so thin.

Mike

Posted on 6 years ago
#5
Posts: 89 Threads: 9

From mlayton

This cymbal is a pre Trans stamp and also known as a Second Stamp model. Have owned and still own many from this era. Most are really light (paper thin) or really heavy. I've got a First Stamp 14". It weighs 610 grams. It is much too light for a hi hat and makes a nice splash or paper thin crash/effects cymbal. It does not even lay flat, it is so thin.Mike

Thanks for the extra info. Ive read a little about the second stamps on Steve’s and Rob’s excellent webpages et al. But still, this is my first experience with an A Zildjian this old. I was actually hoping it would be a 650 gram cymbal. I’m surprised they made one this light. It just seems to me that it’s an odd man out and must have been made for a narrow purpose. It kind of sounds like a modern K splash on steroids.

My 50s paper thins are 700 to 750 grams and I thought they were excessively thin.

Edit - remarkably, this one lay perfectly flat.

Pete

Posted on 6 years ago
#6
Posts: 2374 Threads: 168

Just for your information and for anyone else who cares, that's the 5th type they used since 1929.

Those "excellent timeline" folks like to pretend that they actually know what their talking about. Unfortunately they don't do any of their own research.

Posted on 6 years ago
#7
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37

From Peedy

Thanks for the extra info. Ive read a little about the second stamps on Steve’s and Rob’s excellent webpages et al. But still, this is my first experience with an A Zildjian this old. I was actually hoping it would be a 650 gram cymbal. I’m surprised they made one this light. It just seems to me that it’s an odd man out and must have been made for a narrow purpose. It kind of sounds like a modern K splash on steroids. My 50s paper thins are 700 to 750 grams and I thought they were excessively thin. Edit - remarkably, this one lay perfectly flat. Pete

Peedy, Drumaholidc is the guy you want to hear from. He's the guy that gave all these stamps their labels. Everyone else including Steve and Rob use his work to go off of. He can tell you all about the hammering, the lathing, weights, and he even knows what all that stuff they write under the bell says. There's no better than he to hear from.

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 6 years ago
#8
Posts: 89 Threads: 9

From OddBall

Peedy, Drumaholidc is the guy you want to hear from. He's the guy that gave all these stamps their labels. Everyone else including Steve and Rob use his work to go off of. He can tell you all about the hammering, the lathing, weights, and he even knows what all that stuff they write under the bell says. There's no better than he to hear from.

Couldn’t recall his name so I stuck the et al in. No disrespect meant.

I have seen an identical stamp whose owner stated the original owner had purchased the cymbal new in 1941. But I went with 30s in the title as it’s commonly used.

Posted on 6 years ago
#9
Posts: 111 Threads: 17

if I'm not wrong, that shape is not due to the hammering, but to the chattering of the gouge tool ... I had some first stamp, that are very similar, and in my opinion are the best Avedis ever maked

Posted on 6 years ago
#10
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