Do you like the sound of the cymbal? Is it thick or thin or medium? What type of rivets do you prefer? What type of stick...blah blah blah.

There are lots of variables that go into this type of decision. Weigh them out carefully.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]You are right. Canadian A's (or, as I prefer to call 'em....

Canadian Eh's....)

Laughing H

[COLOR="Red"]oh, oh, oh...sometimes I just kill myself !!!!![/COLOR]

...are more of a rare curiousity than a rare collector cymbal...so, if you think it may make nice sizzler, sure.

My suggestions:

1) first try the ol' metal bead string hung off of the center of the cymbal stem...see if that sounds like what you want.

2) buy some rivets...get copper or preferably brass, and masking tape 'em to the cymbal..see if that is giving you the sound of what you'd like.

3) if you decide to go for it, get yourself the right tools: a) a tiny drillbit to pilot the initial hole (don't start with a larger bit because it'll slip and scratch the cymbal surface). Make the small pilot hole with the tiny bit (doesn't even need to go all the way thru). Then follow it up with b) the larger bit.

Finish up the hole with either c) a small circular file, or c) a dremel tungsten grinder bit or stone grinder bit.

the ...en vogue...locations for rivets these days is:

~ between 1 and 2 o'clock, about 1" in from the edge, give or take 1/8" or so...

~ if you cluster 2 or more, space them no more than 2" apart...[/COLOR]

Canadian Eh's. Love it! (And I say so as a Canadian. You've got my official approval.) :)

Interesting to hear that they're considered rare. They're not that uncommon up here, but of course I suppose that's to be expected.

Thanks for the technical tips! I just picked up the cymbal on the weekend, but the next time I'm at my parents' place (where my drums remain until I finally get a place with a basement), I'll mount the cymbal, put my trusty lamp chain on it, and see how it sounds. This cymbal is on the thin side, so I worry that it might be a bit hard to control the overtones as is--rivets might just turn the thing into a neverending washout of sound, though sometimes that's cool too.

I do love the sound of my Istanbul K with the lamp chain on it, but there's just no way I'm drilling that one. And my main complaint is that the chain chokes the bell. I love the bell on my "new" A, so if I want a sizzle sound, I'll have to drill it.

Thanks for the technical advice! I think I might do the classic six-rivet configuration. If six rivets add too much sizzle, I can always cut back. Are there advantages to using one of the modern "en vogue" configurations instead?

Oh, and any thoughts on where to find brass rivets?

Thanks again for the tips.

You should be able to imagine how the cymbal will sound with rivets after a few tries with some things like lamp pull chains.

If you can imagine that your cymbal would sound good I'd go for it.

I don't really buy into the thinking that Canadian A's aren't collectable... to me they are exactly the same as AZ's and to some they would represent an early Sabian, so I could see a day when they were worth more than AZ's because they made less of them.

I use 2 sizzle cymbals on my set, a 16" 50's K and a 22" swish, which was a factory second made by AZCO, (a Canadian B, A?). I bought the swish new and didn't put the rivets in for about 5 years. I got the brass rivets from a local music store, and put 8 rivets 1" in from the edge. Eight might seem like a lot but I love it and it doesn't sound too busy... just right.

I would never have had the guts to drill the K cymbal, it was that way when I got it, but I'm glad someone did. It's drilled for six rivets 2" in from the edge, but I use it the way I got it - with only four rivets. It's an extremely useful cymbal - it's my main ride on my kick.

I find that sizzle cymbals are real musical... lots of cool places to put them in intros and they're great when you're going nuts at the end of songs. Beautiful with brushes.

I love sizzles with brushes too. Can't wait to hear how this one will sound.

If it works out, there's a good chance I'll drill my 18" Sabian crash next. It came with an old Tama kit I bought used when I was 15; I sold the kit but absolutely love the crash. It sounds like an old 50s or 60s A. I have a lamp chain on it now, and it's just beautiful -- but again, the chain kills the great bell. If my drilling experiment works out on the Zildjian, I'll drill the Sabian too.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]I wasn't suggesting Canadian Eh's are rare....in the sense that they are more valuable than a regular A. Just that they are a bit of curio down on this side of the border....there really aren't many of 'em around.

I have seen folks try to eBay 'em and talk 'em up as rare, and they really don't end up fetching more than an American-made A of the same vintage.

Hmmmm....usually it is a medium or heavier cymbal which is a good candidate for rivets. If the cymbal is thin and has some overtones, then adding THAT many rivets might kill it.

But sometimes a thin cymbal can be sorta dry. What is it about the cymbal you don't like ? Is it clangy ? Too bright or midrangey ? Metallic-y sounding ? Too dry-sounding ? Etc....

In my book Help2 there are 2 general reasons to add rivets:

1) Add some wash and sizzle to the cymbal, give it a tad more sustain and slow the sonic decay.

2) Mask an ugly overtone, ring, roar, or hum/whistle. (I have seen folks successfully do this with 1 or 2 rivets)

Mind BlowiDRILL an old K ! It's a crime punishable by Lobotomy !

Back at that.... cymbal forum.... there's this IDIOT.....some doctor in the south....the guy obviously has tons of money and he buys up old K's...and drills them as soon as they arrive ! Then brags about it. And we aren't talking heavy old hand cymbals. We are talking perfect-weight big rides and crashes....That jerk has messed up more K's than I can count. But then again, I think he is a urologist, so.....

A perfect K which has survived in it's original factory state for over 50 years, and one jackass with control issues mauls 'em...

Naw, you can put the rivets anywhere, really. Personally, I think 6 would be overkill ..I think 6 is overkill on ANY cymbal. If it ain't doin' what you want by 2 or 3 rivets...you might as well stop and just sell it...because it ain't gonna do what you want at 4, 5, or 6....[/COLOR]

Actually, there isn't anything about the cymbal that I don't like -- it's got a nice dusty tone and plenty of wash, which I love. It could stand to be a tiny bit heavier, but I know adding rivets won't help me with that. I'm thinking of drilling just because I love the sound of sizzles. My main concern is that adding rivets to a cymbal with this much wash will kill any stick definition that the cymbal has. I'll try it out with the lamp chain this weekend and see how I feel.

And

3) you want/need a sizzle cymbal and own a not-so-valuable donor

Jaye I'm with you on the med/heavy cymbal thing. My old K with rivets isn't a thin cymbal... medium-ish. I don't think a thin would be a good choice generally.

Actually even the thought of a K with rivets is kinda disturbing... seems so foreign to the sound. My old K is the only K sizzle I've ever seen... AZ's seem like the quintessential.

Jaye I agree that 6 rivets is a bit of a disturbing thought... my K uses 4 rivets out of 6 holes, but I was kinda "huh?" when I counted 8 rivets on my swish last night... but it doesn't sound like you'd think. It doesn't go on and on forever and in a way sounds like there's only 3 in it... kinda weird actually.

Note: I think that after there was some corrosion between the rivets and the cymbal that the sizzle effect was less, and sounded better. So I'd expect a cymbal just riveted to calm down a bit after awhile.

Question: did the factories make sizzle cymbals? Did AZ ship a bunch to stores, or are most of the sizzles homebrew?

[COLOR="DarkRed"]That is a really good Q...I suppose Drumaholic, he of the old, old catalogs, might be able to answer that. But I have wondered it myself. I see, from time to time, sellers claiming "factory holes" or "factory rivets"...but who knows, really ?

Surely some companies did it...but I cannot really say if Avedis Zildjian (or K Zildjian for that matter) ever did.

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