Search
Register
Only Admins can see this message.
Data Transition still in progress. Some functionality may be limited until the process is complete.
Processing Attachment, Gallery - 128.45929%

Gretsch Round Badge Market Update

Posts: 225 Threads: 24

I am taking these posts from another thread as the subject of these posts in particular merits its own thread.

Basically, a VDF member mlvibes who is a dealer was kind enough to share information on current prices from his experience--the thread was about White Satin, hence the specific reference:

From mlvibes

A year or two ago, a Gretsch RB 20-12-14 in a common finish, nice condition, was worth $3000, all day long. I sold several kits in blue sparkle, red sparkle, BDP, with matching snares for $3500 - $4000. More rare finishes were going for quite a bit more, and still are. White Satin isn't exactly rare, but it is more desirable because of the Elvin connection.Things slowed down, obviously, and now an original RB 20-12-14 in a common finish, nice condition, no extra holes, can be had for $2000 - $2500. For a while there I couldn't give a 20-12-14 away, but the market has recently picked back up, and I was able to sell two kits, WMP and Champagne, in that price range in the last two weeks. Champagne, especially, is extremely common, and you'll probably find the best deals in this color. If you can find a 20-12-14 kit with no extra holes for $1600, BUY IT! -Bill

Posted on 15 years ago
#1
Posts: 225 Threads: 24

I responded to Bill's post above as follows:

From knavel

Bill, thanks for this market color. I really am grateful when dealers take the time to post this sort of info. Indeed, it's the first time I've heard that champagne was a common color, although I figured it because I see it a lot. But despite this it seems to be a desirable color as the singles seem to fetch a lot and snare-less kits go for over $2K. I tend not to like a color because it's rare; I like it because it's nice. I am quite sure the reason why a number of colors are so rare is because no one liked them in the day!I've been looking for floor toms for my 3 piece kit (snare, 13/22) forever and considered contacting you about the champ spark one you then sold (and mention above). Also: I would love some market color on how 13/16/22 are doing. I think sometimes I am the only person who likes Gretsch for rock. When I see the prices of 12/14/18 or 20, I am very glad this is the case!

Posted on 15 years ago
#2
Posts: 225 Threads: 24

Bill responded as follows:

From mlvibes

Yes, Champagne was very popular, and thus is very common today. And rightfully so - it's a beautiful, timeless, classy finish! I had a kit for sale, Steve Maxwell currently has a gorgeous bop kit for sale, pooder has one and sold another a couple of weeks ago. There's been 2 kits on NYC craigslist on and off for months, as well as a 20-12-16 on ebay and the aforementioned kit with the 2 extra holes in the rack tom. Just a couple of days ago a guy contacted me with a beautiful 20-12-14 he wants to sell. That's 9 Gretsch RB kits in Champagne Sparkle on the market within one month. 22-13-16 kits in common finishes tend to go for between $1500 and $2000. With a snare, add $500 to those quotes. Earlier in the year I sold a beautiful 22-13-16 w/ matching snare in Anniversary for $2600. The buyer put it on ebay after a couple of weeks and it sold for $3600. The same kit showed up again on ebay a few weeks ago, and sold for $2600. So the market is still pretty chaotic, but with signs of growth...these beauties in Midnight Blue just ended at $3300: http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-1950s-GRETSCH-ROUND-BADGE-4-Piece-Set-Drum-Kit_W0QQitemZ110437154082 -Bill

Posted on 15 years ago
#3
Posts: 225 Threads: 24

Bill,

I saw that Anniversary set for $2600. I charted it and another on the ebay thread below. So that poor guy took a $1k bath. Ouch.

I also saw the $3300 set first sell under reserve for around $2650 and then $3300 on the second go. But I do believe it came with some hardware as well and the bass mount cymbal arm, so presumably that accounts for a bit of it. In my view a kit that looks like it has history is always the most desirable.

Do you find a difference in desirabity for 50s (as in 3 ply) and 60s (6 ply) round badge? Would this help explain the higher price for the $3300 set, esp for a color (BDP) I thought was pretty common and not on the top end of the desirablity scale?

One other thing I'd like to know is what finishes that someone can actually find tend to generate the most interest--especially in non bop size, where people will take anything since they are so rare. (I define finishes that can't be found as: Cad Green, copper mist, cameo coral).

Anyone else interested please chime in as well!

Posted on 15 years ago
#4
Posts: 224 Threads: 7

I'm not sure I have much to add since I'm not a dealer. I do think the set that sold for $3300 went for a lot more than I would have expected for a 22-13-16 with 5-1/2 - especially when he only allowed U.S bidders. Personally I think the BMP is a beautiful finish (and I own some of it), but I agree that it seems fairly common in the 50's Gretsch's that turn up and doesn't usually command a premium. And I think anniversary sparkle should be worth more than BMP, and not less as these results would suggest.

I can find two possible explanations (besides the obvious that there could be two U.S. bidders who really really wanted that item and were willing to pay more than typical). The first is the really nice clean condition the set is in. And hardware probably helps (though did you notice the Premier hihat)?

Second possibility is there could have been some monkey business with the bidders - the two high bidders had only a single feedback each which always makes me suspicious. Ebay doesn't let you check bidders' histories any more, so I always consider foul play when low feedback bidders bid on items that go for more than market.

I don't think this is a sign that the Gretsch drum market has skyrocketed in the last few weeks - I think its a one time occurrence.

Posted on 15 years ago
#5
Posts: 4009 Threads: 209

Funny you mention the 3-ply vs. 6-ply debate......its interesting that the 3-ply drums command less money than the newer 6-ply drums since the famous slogan: "That Great Grestch Sound" refers to the sound of the 3-ply drums and NOT the 6-ply drums! They came out with the slogan in the early 50's and 6-ply drums didn't come out until the late 50's.......all the great Blue Note records were drummers playing 3-ply Grestch! Go figure!

Also, interesting that its the other way around when it comes to Ludwig drums....Hmmmm

Posted on 15 years ago
#6
Posts: 225 Threads: 24

From 4MoreYearsOhNo

I can find two possible explanations (besides the obvious that there could be two U.S. bidders who really really wanted that item and were willing to pay more than typical). The first is the really nice clean condition the set is in. And hardware probably helps (though did you notice the Premier hihat)?Second possibility is there could have been some monkey business with the bidders - the two high bidders had only a single feedback each which always makes me suspicious. Ebay doesn't let you check bidders' histories any more, so I always consider foul play when low feedback bidders bid on items that go for more than market.I don't think this is a sign that the Gretsch drum market has skyrocketed in the last few weeks - I think its a one time occurrence.

I missed the fact that both buyers were single feedback. Good catch. I agree that this is an anomaly and not some "turnaround". Let's assume the first attempt to sell that closed at about $2600 is the more appropriate reference...especially given the Anniversary set Bill talked about (and whose downward price discovery I charted in the ebay auctions section on this forum) went for $2600.

I will even go one step further and say that I have seen very little to make me think that the greater economic climate in the USA has changed at all or will be any time soon. Vintage drum prices will be affected by this as much as everthing else.

I didn't catch the Premier piece...I don't know anything about non US producers though.

From Ludwig-dude

Funny you mention the 3-ply vs. 6-ply debate......its interesting that the 3-ply drums command less money than the newer 6-ply drums since the famous slogan: "That Great Grestch Sound" refers to the sound of the 3-ply drums and NOT the 6-ply drums! They came out with the slogan in the early 50's and 6-ply drums didn't come out until the late 50's.......all the great Blue Note records were drummers playing 3-ply Grestch! Go figure!Also, interesting that its the other way around when it comes to Ludwig drums....Hmmmm

Wow this is the first time I've heard that Gretsch 3 ply are not as desireable as 6 ply. Really??? I say this because I've read so many bad things about how hard it is to put heads on 6 ply whereas 3 ply doesn't have this problem.

I've even seen a post somewhere where the guy said "After I got a 3ply RB set I sold my 6 ply ones".

Point taken on Ludwig. Funny isn't it.

Posted on 15 years ago
#7
Posts: 224 Threads: 7

I don't agree that 3-ply sells for less than 6-ply. Value seems to be pretty much the same to me. I think it is true that you run across more of the 22-13-16 in 3 ply, and more of the 20-12-14 in 6 ply which may explain why it seems the 6 ply sells for more.

I have a related question. If a "common" finish (for a 22-13-16) is $1500-2000, then how much is an "unobtainable" finish - Cad green, copper mist, cameo coral?

Posted on 15 years ago
#8
Posts: 225 Threads: 24

I was under the impression that 6 ply command less than 3 ply solely based on Ludwig-Dude's post. Again, I've not heard a lot one way or another, but I have read that it's easier to put heads on 3 plys.

Myself, I find it's more evenly split in terms of 20/12/14 vs 22/13/16 in 6 ply. But I'm hardly expert.

I've only even seen cameo coral once. There was a six lug snare on ebay a month or two ago where someone had painted the snare grey on the bottom half.

BTW a 3 ply blue or black diamond pearl w/ snare just sold on ebay for $2500.

Where are the dealers to chime in!!!

Posted on 15 years ago
#9
Posts: 4009 Threads: 209

From knavel

I was under the impression that 6 ply command less than 3 ply solely based on Ludwig-Dude's post. Again, I've not heard a lot one way or another, but I have read that it's easier to put heads on 3 plys.Myself, I find it's more evenly split in terms of 20/12/14 vs 22/13/16 in 6 ply. But I'm hardly expert.I've only even seen cameo coral once. There was a six lug snare on ebay a month or two ago where someone had painted the snare grey on the bottom half. BTW a 3 ply blue or black diamond pearl w/ snare just sold on ebay for $2500.Where are the dealers to chime in!!!

6-ply LUDWIG drums do usually go for less than 3-ply LUDWIG drums......it seems to be the other way around for Grestch drums was my point.

Posted on 15 years ago
#10
  • Share
  • Report
Action Another action
Something else here