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craiglist k's with story Last viewed: 1 week ago

Posts: 6524 Threads: 37

I think it was the late 30`s that I found 13" single from Zildjian/Ludwig and the HH that came with the trap kit were 11`s. I couldn`t find 13" HH advertised. 30`s or 40`s.

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 8 years ago
#21
Posts: 1322 Threads: 22

From OddBall

Late 30`s and then you got the war. I traced down HH`s to the early 30`s but they didn`t start taking off til after the war. Big bands were fading and radio music was becoming popular. I couldn`t find 13 inch cymbals in the 30`s 40`s but I`m sure somebody must have made some. I`m convinced the 13 is a HH designed cymbal. The innovations of mixing or matching was sure to follow. As for doubting the use in the 40`s and 50`s, that`s yours to make but keep in mind all the cats of that era still have sound effects gear from hollow dowels to the common crosscut saw. You go look real close at those, same everything, I doubt the artist even put the marker down signing them. It`s more likely he was making product that looked and sounded the same and less likely they are Hats, but being how close they are in weight and color, and they way it looks like they were hammer tuned, I lean towards a matched pair. It is very hard to find a 13 in the 40`s and 30`s I still haven`t. But I`m sure threre was,...somewhere. That`s my story and I`m sticking to it.

You need to learn how to research better. Your assumptions and opinions on these questions are way off. If you want to be taken seriously on this site you need to do the same research the rest of us do and stop jumping to conclusions on scanty evidence.

Here's a Gretsch Catalog from 1941 which offers K Zildjians for sale in sizes 11", 12" 13" 14" 15" and 16" They also have hi hat stands in the catalog. You said you couldn't find 13" cymbals in the 1940's. Well here they are! They were a very common size. They were also available in the '30's as well. I have no clue how you could have missed it. It took me less then 5 minutes to find them. Remember there were no matched set hi hat cymbals back then. You bought two cymbals, as I mentioned in my earlier post, and matched them yourself by ear.

[ame]http://www.drumarchive.com/Gretsch/Gretsch_41.pdf[/ame]

Here is a 1961 Gretsch catalog showing the same cymbal variety as earlier except that larger ride cymbals are included. Both 12" and 13" cymbals and hi hat pairs are clearly available. The cymbals are still sold individually, but Gretsch would match up pairs for you for hi hat use at your request. This is the period in which the subject of this thread were made.

[ame]http://www.drumarchive.com/Gretsch/Gretsch_61.pdf[/ame]

Contrary to your statement that hi hats "didn`t start taking off til after the war.", there are hundreds of videos and thousands of photos before the war in the 1930's and during the war showing small group and big band drummers using hi hats. Again, just a little research on your part would have uncovered this. I've included several videos from the 30's and a great photo of Sonny Greer from 1933. All these drummers are using high hat stands. By the late 1930s hi hat stands were in common use. I could easily add dozens of other videos and photos in a matter of minutes, but frankly if this doesn't convince you than nothing will.

Cab Calloway's Jitterbug (1935)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N06KxYyUZkk[/ame]

Benny Goodman Orchestra "Sing, Sing, Sing" Gene Krupa - Drums, from "Hollywood Hotel" film (1937)

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mJ4dpNal_k[/ame]

Count Basie - Basie Boogie (Also includes various other bands from the mid/late 1930's into the very early 1940's Every drummer has a hi hat and is keeping time on it.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhfygIZSr5M"]Count Basie - Basie Boogie - YouTube[/ame]

Jimmie Lunceford And His Orchestra (Early/Mid 1930s)

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNfUtfdwTes&list=PLLr2rUGFzRRBQWAmq5jN73oqt8K8nwyvX"]JImmie Lunceford And His Orchestra - YouTube[/ame]

Big Sid Catlett (Mid/Late 1930's)

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAgfQOMdGfc"]Big Sid Catlett - YouTube[/ame]

Sonny Greer of the Duke Ellington Orchestra in 1933

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Mark
BosLover
Posted on 8 years ago
#22
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37

From BosLover

You need to learn how to research better. Your assumptions and opinions on these questions are way off. If you want to be taken seriously on this site you need to do the same research the rest of us do and stop jumping to conclusions on scanty evidence. Here's a Gretsch Catalog from 1941 which offers K Zildjians for sale in sizes 11", 12" 13" 14" 15" and 16" They also have hi hat stands in the catalog. You said you couldn't find 13" cymbals in the 1940's. Well here they are! They were a very common size. They were also available in the '30's as well. I have no clue how you could have missed it. It took me less then 5 minutes to find them. Remember there were no matched set hi hat cymbals back then. You bought two cymbals, as I mentioned in my earlier post, and matched them yourself by ear. http://www.drumarchive.com/Gretsch/Gretsch_41.pdf Here is a 1961 Gretsch catalog showing the same cymbal variety as earlier except that larger ride cymbals are included. Both 12" and 13" cymbals and hi hat pairs are clearly available. The cymbals are still sold individually, but Gretsch would match up pairs for you for hi hat use at your request. This is the period in which the subject of this thread were made. http://www.drumarchive.com/Gretsch/Gretsch_61.pdfContrary to your statement that hi hats "didn`t start taking off til after the war.", there are hundreds of videos and thousands of photos before the war in the 1930's and during the war showing small group and big band drummers using hi hats. Again, just a little research on your part would have uncovered this. I've included several videos from the 30's and a great photo of Sonny Greer from 1933. All these drummers are using high hat stands. By the late 1930s hi hat stands were in common use. I could easily add dozens of other videos and photos in a matter of minutes, but frankly if this doesn't convince you than nothing will. Cab Calloway's Jitterbug (1935)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N06KxYyUZkkBenny Goodman Orchestra "Sing, Sing, Sing" Gene Krupa - Drums, from "Hollywood Hotel" film (1937)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mJ4dpNal_kCount Basie - Basie Boogie (Also includes various other bands from the mid/late 1930's into the very early 1940's Every drummer has a hi hat and is keeping time on it.Count Basie - Basie Boogie - YouTubeJimmie Lunceford And His Orchestra (Early/Mid 1930s)JImmie Lunceford And His Orchestra - YouTubeBig Sid Catlett (Mid/Late 1930's)Big Sid Catlett - YouTubeSonny Greer of the Duke Ellington Orchestra in 1933

I read the first sentence, I said,...go get coffee made, pack a bowl and wake-n bake. Then I said, don`t let things like boslover bother you at 4 in the morning. It`s Friday. Things like ,...how the coffee machine knows to stop dripping when I remove the pot. um, coffee pot. That kinda sh*t bothers me.

I thought I left room for the invention and introductory phases. of the HH. Of course you will see hundreds of pictures or thousands of bands with the new product. That aint,...popular man. it`s data. Europe, Russia, ME, N. Africa, British, Japan,...where all rebuilding after the war. There`s the rest of the world guy. In 46, there were a Hundred Million people in America. 100,000 isn`t even close to popular with that number and I doubt there were that many in existence. During the late 30`s and up to mid 40`s, everybody else was ducking artillery, which was popular. There is a ,...rest of the world guy.

I can track down to the early thirties in two catalogs a HH. Ludwig and SONOR. I left room by saying ...("I`m sure there were somewhere) and that I had found 13" K`s, but not 13" K. HH`s. Still have not found a 30`s or 40`s cat with 13" Hats advertised only 11,s,...Have you ? Maybe because I said cymbals that I meant two but cymbals is the proper grammatically placed word. So I shouldn`t have done that by nature.

Ok that`s the answer to your opening paragraph.

Now, I can`t find the cymbal list, just snare drums. did you know if you scroll the page up and down while staring at the snares, they dance?

But I can find cataloged 11" Hi Hats listed with trap kits. Not went out and match your own kind.

I see nothing wrong with my assertion of my research in saying they weren`t popular till after the war and 13" HH`s are a result of the HH stand.

I`m going to load my truck`s rack now. Still wondering how the coffee machine knows to stop dripping.

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 8 years ago
#23
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37

Just to keep TommP from launching torpedo`s I`d rather talk about how I think those 12`s in the OP are a matched K set and one of the ....(" I`m sure there were some" )

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 8 years ago
#24
Posts: 1322 Threads: 22

From OddBall

I read the first sentence, I said,...go get coffee made, pack a bowl and wake-n bake. Then I said, don`t let things like boslover bother you at 4 in the morning. It`s Friday. Things like ,...how the coffee machine knows to stop dripping when I remove the pot. um, coffee pot. That kinda sh*t bothers me. I thought I left room for the invention and introductory phases. of the HH. Of course you will see hundreds of pictures or thousands of bands with the new product. That aint,...popular man. it`s data. Europe, Russia, ME, N. Africa, British, Japan,...where all rebuilding after the war. There`s the rest of the world guy. In 46, there were a Hundred Million people in America. 100,000 isn`t even close to popular with that number and I doubt there were that many in existence. During the late 30`s and up to mid 40`s, everybody else was ducking artillery, which was popular. There is a ,...rest of the world guy. I can track down to the early thirties in two catalogs a HH. Ludwig and SONOR. I left room by saying ...("I`m sure there were somewhere) and that I had found 13" K`s, but not 13" K. HH`s. Still have not found a 30`s or 40`s cat with 13" Hats advertised only 11,s,...Have you ? Maybe because I said cymbals that I meant two but cymbals is the proper grammatically placed word. So I shouldn`t have done that by nature. Ok that`s the answer to your opening paragraph. Now, I can`t find the cymbal list, just snare drums. did you know if you scroll the page up and down while staring at the snares, they dance? But I can find cataloged 11" Hi Hats listed with trap kits. Not went out and match your own kind. I see nothing wrong with my assertion of my research in saying they weren`t popular till after the war and 13" HH`s are a result of the HH stand. I`m going to load my truck`s rack now. Still wondering how the coffee machine knows to stop dripping.

North Africa, Middle East, Russia? What the heck are you talking about? Why not include Outer Mongolia, the Belgian Congo, and Macedonia while you're at it. I'm sure they weren't using hi hats in a lot of places in the 1930's, but that's totally irrelevant. And by the way, since you mention Britain in your list, here is a clip from Pathe's Radio Music Hall Reel 1 (1938) IN BRITAIN. Go to around 1 minute and 7 seconds into the clip to see a British swing band in action.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPCDOOrvpl4"]Pathe's Radio Music Hall Reel 1 (1938) - YouTube[/ame]

And here are two pages from the BRITISH Premier catalog from 1937. Note the presence of a hi hat stand on the cover page and the comment on the second page regarding the "High Hat" picture, which they call "A Swing Drummer's Necessity". in 1937!!!!!!!!!!!!

Obviously not everyone everywhere was using a hi hat in the late 30's but by that time they were in common use.

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 8 years ago
#25
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37

Did you find 13" K hats in a 30`s or 40`s catalog ?

Any 13"HH`s at all in the 30`s and 40`s.

Just because you think that maybe 25,000 HH`s in use makes them common or world popular,....doesn`t mean I have to. The comparison is just too large.

It`s safe to say, by the 50`s, everybody had them.

I wonder if their coffee machines dripped.

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 8 years ago
#26
Posts: 1322 Threads: 22

From OddBall

Did you find 13" K hats in a 30`s or 40`s catalog ? Any 13"HH`s at all in the 30`s and 40`s.Just because you think that maybe 25,000 HH`s in use makes them common or world popular,....doesn`t mean I have to. The comparison is just too large. It`s safe to say, by the 50`s, everybody had them. I wonder if their coffee machines dripped.

Your handle certainly fits you.

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 8 years ago
#27
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37

Could be worse, I could have been a bowling ball.

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 8 years ago
#28
Posts: 6524 Threads: 37

All those people sticking their fingers in my three holes,.....

It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Posted on 8 years ago
#29
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