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Origins of cymbal terminology - when did rides enter the game?

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It is (more or less) common knowledge that the typolgy of cymbals comes from Gene Krupa, who, besides being a brilliant drummer, was also quite an innovator, bringing us the tuneble tom-toms and hi-hat.

The question I have, though, is: how/when did he come up with a name for a ride cymbal?

I always thought that the first drummer to use cymbals to keep time was Max Roach, a be-bop drummer in the 1940s. How could thus Gene, a 1930s swing star, come up with a 'ride' category before him?

Or was the actual process more complicated and fuzzy than that?

Did Gene make up just some of the names? Did he invent them later than 1930s? Did drummers use to ride on cymbals actually before Max Roach came along?

I'm looking forward to hearing your opinions on this matter.

Sysl krysu nenahradi!

-196?-72 6ply White Oyster Amati
-1960s 3ply Red Sparkle Amati
- Zildjian, Paiste, Zyn, Istanbul

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Posted on 8 years ago
#1
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From what I know Gene came up with the names along with Zildjian. I think they coined hi-hats,splash,crash & ride. I could be mistaken.

18 Kits & 40+ snares..
Not a Guru, just addicted to drums

- Jay
Posted on 8 years ago
#2
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I'd like to know as well. I would also be fascinated to see/ hear how they used to originally play he early swing/ Dixieland style without ride cymbals I.e. playing time on the snare with buzz rolls and the like,.... but what , just what , did they play and, for example was it more or less the same rhythm like the standard ride patterns that we know. How to swing this way but sound interesting,- not over simple but at the same time not to busy, it makes you realise the ride fills in a lot of space. Surely the ride cymbal stands for a heck of a lot.

I love the jazz era
Posted on 8 years ago
#3
1976 Ludwig Mach 4 Thermogloss 26-18-14-14sn
1978 Ludwig Stainless 22-22-18-16-14-13-12 c/w 6-8-10-12-13-14-15-16-18-20-22-24 concert toms
1975 Sonor Phonic Centennials Metallic Pewter 22-16-13-12-14sn (D506)
1971 Ludwig Classic Bowling Ball OBP 22-16-14-13
1960's Stewart Peacock Pearl 20-16-12-14sn
1980`s Ludwig Coliseum Piano Black 8x14 snare
1973 Rogers Superten 5x14 & 6.5x14 COS snares
1970`s John Grey Capri Aquamarine Sparkle 5x14 snare
1941 Ludwig & Ludwig Super 8x14 snare
Posted on 8 years ago
#4
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I thought the idea of a ride cymbal came from the jazz idiom where that element of the drum set became the principal means of keeping time and driving the rhythm by "riding" that voice above the rest in the kit.

Posted on 8 years ago
#5
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The ride cymbal became the way to keep time. I just wonder how the drummers sounded before that.

I love the jazz era
Posted on 8 years ago
#6
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Here's what Zildjian had to say in a SoundLab report:

[ame]http://black.net.nz/avedis/images/SoundLab-Crash-Cymbals.pdf[/ame]

Also, according to Pinksterboer, The Cymbal Book (p150), the 1948 Zildjian Catalog offered cymbals in 18" to 26". Based on 1950s catalogs, advertisements, and known examples, these larger cymbals weren't always called Ride cymbals. They seemed to have other names in use: BEBOP, BOP, BOUNCE, PING, DANCE are the ones I've recorded ink examples for. I don't know when RIDE ink first appeared. But I was certainly surprised when I came across all those other names on 1950s cymbals.

Posted on 8 years ago
#7
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From grantro

Fascinating! Thanks for posting that.

Posted on 8 years ago
#8
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From R.Adam McHugh

Fascinating! Thanks for posting that.

& I second that! I love the statement from Hector Berlioz! Thanks Grantro

1964 Ludwig Champagne Super Classic
1970 Ludwig Blue Oyster Super Classic
1977 Rogers Big R Londoner 5 ebony
1972/1978 Rogers Powertone/Big R mix ebony
60's Ludwig Supersensitive
Pearl B4514 COB snare ( the SC snare)
Pearl Firecracker
PJL WMP maple snare
Odds & Sods

Sabians, Paistes, Zildjians, Zyns, UFIPs, MIJs etc
Item may be subject to change!
Posted on 8 years ago
#9
Posts: 5295 Threads: 226
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No problemo!! Glad I could contribute!!

Cheers

1976 Ludwig Mach 4 Thermogloss 26-18-14-14sn
1978 Ludwig Stainless 22-22-18-16-14-13-12 c/w 6-8-10-12-13-14-15-16-18-20-22-24 concert toms
1975 Sonor Phonic Centennials Metallic Pewter 22-16-13-12-14sn (D506)
1971 Ludwig Classic Bowling Ball OBP 22-16-14-13
1960's Stewart Peacock Pearl 20-16-12-14sn
1980`s Ludwig Coliseum Piano Black 8x14 snare
1973 Rogers Superten 5x14 & 6.5x14 COS snares
1970`s John Grey Capri Aquamarine Sparkle 5x14 snare
1941 Ludwig & Ludwig Super 8x14 snare
Posted on 8 years ago
#10
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