Unfortunately we're dancing around the details which is why you are confused by the responses. There are no "inner rules" Drumaholic is probably the foremost expert on cymbals and their value in the world. He is the person who researched and developed the commonly used timeline and naming convention for vintage K Zildjians, A. Zildjians, and Constantinoples. Drumaholic is telling you is that you've overvalued the Spizz. It may be a great cymbal, it may be one of a kind, and of course Don Roberto is no more which will affect the value, but if Drumaholic says you're pricing it too high, then that is what you are doing. Your cymbal sounds very nice, but its only a 20". If it was a 22" it would probably be worth much more. He is comparing it to old K's because they are the benchmark for both sound and values. I listened to your sound clip and to me your Spizz is very nice sounding. It is also very old K like, and will appeal primarily to those who would also appreciate the old K sound. While I haven't followed the prices closely in recent months, if one was able to get a good or similar sounding 20" old K for less money then you would probably have difficulty getting the price you are after.

Welcome rzzsfn. I see you've already met Drumaholic. Thanks to BosLover you have also heard about Drumaholic's credibility. I'm happy to share what little data I've got. I don't usually make comment on asking prices unless I am asked, but in this case I think it might help to give some context in this discussion.

Recent 20" old K prices vs Spizz prices from my price database:

Median price for old stamp 20" $1250 (n=12)

for intermediate stamp $613 (n=15)

for new stamp $900 (n=14)

combining new + intermediate (aka "not old") $745 (n=29)

So old stamp expected price relative to new is about 1.4 (40 %), and old stamp expected price relative to intermediate about 2 (twice as expensive).

The old stamp expected price relative to "not old stamp" is about 1.7 (70% more). I've given separate results for Old, New and Intermediate old Ks because I'm hoping it is time to move on from talking about "old K prices" in general and being specific as to production era.

Spizz prices for comparison (not very much data I'm afraid):

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2015/spizz-sales.png[/img]

I noticed this 20" Spizz is priced in Euros and is for sale in Italy, and I don't yet have a good estimate for how that affects the expected price. But as a general observation I'd say that used cymbal prices tend to be higher in Europe, even for cymbals which are made in Europe (based on my Paiste analysis). I also noticed that this Spizz has the earlier "Cymbals Factory" rather then "Cymbal Factory" stamp, which means it is probably Asian alloy rather than Turkish. That might interest some who are after the Asian Spizz sound.

Disclaimer: I'm not an expert on old Ks or Spizzichinos. I do have a bit of data on cymbal prices, and know a bit about statistical analysis and consumer behavior modelling.

I've played on some really nice Spizz's and this one is really nice too but it's out of my price range.

No offence but maybe it's just the way us americans sound in our use of the English language that may sound offensive to those in non-US countries.

No...I sound offensive to every country. Including this one.

Hahahaha, well you got me on that one...

Gary

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

It's a pleasure to talk with you, Drumaholic, now that I know you are one of the best experts all over the world about this kind of stuff, and with everyone who's answering too. I'm enthusiastic! Jump For Joy

Well, yes, I'm starting to understand what you meant, Drumaholic.

And I feel more comfortable now that I know there are no "secrets". :)

Anyway, you are not offensive but, let me say this, aggressive (but here I'm not sure about how you mean "offensive", I mean something like "morally injuring").

I'm surely not experienced like many people in here, and I said it: I'm new.

I have overpriced this Spizz? Maybe it's true. But let me explain: before deciding that price I did a little research on the internet: I just saw Spizzichino rides sold from 800 EUR to 2900 USD and then decided that price.

As I said, I also could let the price drop, even if I don't fully understand why I see that most of the Spizz are being sold around 1500 USD without any discussion about the price asked by the seller... The only answer I got was about the size. Any other suggestion? Thanks!

You were right, zenstat, it's an asian alloy.

So, folks, how much should I ask for this pie?

There's something to be said for consistency....

Good to see you around.....:)

Never heard of them.

Steve Maxwell is selling them for $$$$ though.

I mean $1500 bucks?

....and that's the price AFTER it was lowered.