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Zildjian "Seconds" from back in the day

Posts: 1685 Threads: 529

Hello,

I know Zildjian doesn't sell seconds anymore, but they used to, back in the 50's and 60's, possibly up to the early 70's??? I know that in the later years that they were sold, there would be a capital "S" stamped near the usual Zildjian trademark, to be identified as a second.

I was recently in Rhode Island, and visited "The Village Drum And Music" shop in North Scituate. This place was AWESOME and is well worth a stop if you are ever in the Providence area (it's buried on a small, residential street). They do a lot of ebay stuff too, and the owner, Anthony DeFusco is about as nice of a guy as you can ever hope to meet!

Anyway, I found what appeared to be an old A. that had no trademark or stamp of any kind. It was a 22" and was labeled on the price tag as a Zildjian "Second" from the 50's. I immediately fell in love! It is nice and thin (barely 2000 grams) and sounded so sweet! I asked Anthony about it, and he said, to the best of his knowledge, the early Zildjian seconds were not stamped or identified in any way. Does anyone know this for a fact?

I trust Anthony, and based on our conversation, he clearly knew a ton about vintage drums and cymbals (he knew about the stamped "S" in later years). The cymbal is definitely older, as it has the small center hole that won't fit on a modern stand. It also has the classic "old A." lathing, that gets wider near the edge of the cymbal. Is there anything else it could possibly be? Either way, I love the cymbal; I would just like to know a bit more history regarding it.

I'm sure someone more knowledgeable than I will chime in and set the record straight. As far as the cymbal, it is being shipped to me this coming week and I can't wait! If this truly was a "second", then the tester at Zildjian was having a bad day that day (was it Leon C. way back then?). This cymbal sounds way better than most of the old A.'s I have heard. I'll share photos when it arrives.

Thanks,

V

Posted on 9 years ago
#1
Posts: 6170 Threads: 255

I've got the other side of the coin. I've got some 60's "S"s stamp hats with the 60's Zildjian stamp. Then I've got a newer hollow ink logo Avedis with no Zildjian stamp or "S" stamp.

Mike

Posted on 9 years ago
#2
Posts: 1685 Threads: 529

From mlayton

I've got the other side of the coin. I've got some 60's "S"s stamp hats with the 60's Zildjian stamp. Then I've got a newer hollow ink logo Avedis with no Zildjian stamp or "S" stamp.Mike

Interesting. I know the "S" stamped seconds also had the normal Zildjian stamp on them.

So the hollow ink you have (I assume you mean the late 70's/early 80's era) just has ink stamps, but no engraved stamps anywhere? Never heard of that before.

Posted on 9 years ago
#3
Posts: 6170 Threads: 255

Yes, the hollow ink has no stamps other than the ink.

I just my records on my S stamped hats. One has the S stamp and no Zildjian stamp. The other also has the S stamp and two different 60's Zildjian stamps.

Mike

Posted on 9 years ago
#4
Guest

From mlayton

Yes, the hollow ink has no stamps other than the ink.I just my records on my S stamped hats. One has the S stamp and no Zildjian stamp. The other also has the S stamp and two different 60's Zildjian stamps.Mike

This is where I come in with my statistician joke: "on average your hats have the right number of stamps, Mike."

Since I've been paying closer attention to Avedis Zildjian cymbals I am now happy to apply the phrase: "with Avedis never say never". Some cymbals never got stamped, some got stamped twice, you name it and it has happened at one time or another.

I think that one of the things which has shifted is that these anomalies come to light more frequently because of the internet, and eBay. Twenty years ago you wouldn't personally have seen 1,000 Avedis Zildjian cymbals and given them a careful examination (unless you are Leon Chiappini of course)

https://www.namm.org/library/oral-history/leon-chiappini

Thus "stamping mistakes" which are rare (say 1 per 10,000) cymbals might not come to light. Now we can view 1,000 cymbals a month thanks to eBay and online forums and inexpensive digital photos. You probably need to get out more if you do that, but it is possible. :p And those who pay close attention do come across the anomalies.

Posted on 9 years ago
#5
Posts: 2197 Threads: 202

My friend Ed and I bought an early Pearl Export set from a guy in the Plymouth, MA area with a complete set of S stamped Zildjians, reported by the owner to have been bought at the factory in Norwell. They sound good- I have the hats. They are typical (maybe a LITTLE on the heavy side) New Beats.

Posted on 9 years ago
#6
Posts: 1685 Threads: 529

From teverson-sr

My friend Ed and I bought an early Pearl Export set from a guy in the Plymouth, MA area with a complete set of S stamped Zildjians, reported by the owner to have been bought at the factory in Norwell. They sound good- I have the hats. They are typical (maybe a LITTLE on the heavy side) New Beats.

Cool! Do your hats also have the "normal" Zildjian engraved stamp? Could you provide a photo for documentation purposes?

Posted on 9 years ago
#7
Posts: 1685 Threads: 529

From mlayton

Yes, the hollow ink has no stamps other than the ink.I just my records on my S stamped hats. One has the S stamp and no Zildjian stamp. The other also has the S stamp and two different 60's Zildjian stamps.Mike

Thanks Mike. Can you provide a photo for documentation purposes? If you could, take photos of both the ink stamps with no logo, and both "S" cymbals (Showing no and two stamps, respectively). That would mean a lot, and would be a valuable resource down the line for everyone.

Posted on 9 years ago
#8
Posts: 2197 Threads: 202

Well here it is- no ink, no Zildjian stamp, just half an "S". It's mate is not a second, but a small stamp A.

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Posted on 9 years ago
#9
Posts: 6170 Threads: 255

Here is the one hat with the double stamps that are different that also has the s stamp.

Mike

Posted on 9 years ago
#10
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