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A. Zildjian Brilliant 20" 1813g, 60s (?)

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This cymbal has me baffled. An A. Zildjian 20" weighing 1813g. I received it in filthy condition, sounded dead and lifeless so I cleaned it with BKF. Lo and behold, it appeared to have a brilliant finish behind all that grime. Sounded a bit better after cleaning but not good enough to use it so I put it back in my cymbal bag 18 months ago. I decided to take it out today and it sounds better than my first impressions. The stamp measures 1.25" and has 3 dots but I'm not sure if it is a 60s stamp since Zildjian appears very light.

Is it a 60s stamp? Did Zildjian make brilliant cymbals in the 60s or was this done by a previous owner? Must be a thin crash, ya think?

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Posted on 9 years ago
#1
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Yes most probably 1960s, although your height measurement isn't spot on. It should be either 1 3/16" or 1.5". You need to measure to the nearest 1/16" How strongly the die is stamped in isn't strongly correlated with the era. But yours has the other 3 attributes which are discussed on my site:

http://black.net.nz/avedis/avedis-gallery.html#60s

Brilliant cymbals are documented back into the early 1950s. Sometimes the 1950s ones are called "burnished" rather than brilliant. The tonal grooves aren't worn down as much in "burnishing", although this isn't a distinction metal fabricators would necessarily make. It is something cymbal fanciers have made, and a working hypothesis is that in the 1950s the lathing tools weren't as sharp (or used differently, or something) such that they tended to leave the surface looking "burnished".

The tonal grooves on your example look worn down by the Zildjian "brilliant" process to me. I'm sure I've seen a patent for that but I can't locate it again. If anybody has the patent number that would help.

I haven't finished a web page specifically on the evidence for brilliant cymbals, but I do have a link in my year by year timeline to the first ad for brilliant cymbals being offered which I currently know about. Scroll down in the years and you will see a link to it in 1971. This doesn't mean ads don't go back further in time. I just haven't spotted one yet.

http://black.net.nz/avedis/avedis-by-years.html

Note that if you remeasure and your stamp is indeed 1.25" then I'd love to see a photo of it being measured. There is a 1.25" stamp from the mid 50s at that height which has the 3 dots, but your cymbal doesn't look like one of those because it lacks visible "freestyle" hammering top and bottom. These are mentioned on my site as well:

http://black.net.nz/avedis/avedis-gallery.html#1954

Since that entry was written we* have several landmarks identified on the "1954" stamp which let us tell them from the other stamps (other than by height). If you get a true 1.25" measurement than I'll be surprised, but I'm still surprised on a daily basis. I would then look closer at the landmarks on your stamp pic and see what we can see. I would also ask for a picture of the whole of the underside in "dramatic" side lighting so we might pick up some hammering. Same with the top. But only if you get that 1.25 measurement verified. The top looks machine hammered in the common 1960s style of concentric rings, so there is nothing remarkable on view which would support anything other than 1960s. Same with the bell size and shape, although so far that only provides relatively weak evidence of stamp era (if it were the only thing to go on) except perhaps for the Large Stamps (which that isn't).

* note: The "we" for the 1954 landmarks includes me, Mike Layton, and Adam/CaptainCrunch. Thanks guys.

Posted on 9 years ago
#2
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Ok, it's closer to 1.2" as measured by my "stinkin' calipers" (yes, I'm THAT guy). That's closer to 1-3/16". Thanks for the explanation.

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Posted on 9 years ago
#3
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Looks like a thin ride form the 60s...

Last one I had was about 1925g & sounded great until it developed a spiral crack along the bell's base...

Bop iT / Til U Drop iT.

ROGER's
1964 Cleveland,.18/14/12 in WMP
1966 Cleveland, 20/14/12 O'natural.
Fullerton,...20/16/13/12 Silver Glass

WFL
1957 B/R Super Classics In WMP

Snares..
Wood & COB Powertones,
Wood & COB Dynasonics,
57 Jazz Festival

Zildjian avedis cymbals.
40s/60s era.
Posted on 9 years ago
#4
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From PeterK

Ok, it's closer to 1.2" as measured by my "stinkin' calipers" (yes, I'm THAT guy). That's closer to 1-3/16". Thanks for the explanation.

Ha. Calipers good. Cool1

I recently had to go and update the text on my site to say "about" or similar in front of measurements because he who doesn't need "stinkin' calipers" gave only rough approximations not exact measurements. It turned out to be a source of confusion when users didn't get close enough to the "official" published measurement. Next on my list is giving metric equivalents as well.

I didn't comment on the weight before. That is certainly a lighter one. Could be a crash, could be a THIN, but once the ink has gone it's really hard to say for sure. I've been keeping track of ink designations on older cymbals when they are preserved (which is not often). So far I've got the list below.

Ink stamps model/weight class seen on older (50s or earlier) cymbals:

PAPER THIN

EX. THIN (on a first 11" diam so PAPER wouldn't fit nicely? or two different designations?)

THIN

BOP

BOUNCE

HI HAT

PING (50s HB)

MEDIUM THIN

MEDIUM THIN FAST

HEAVY BOTTOM

So no CRASH as such, but I haven't got old 60s and 50s catalogs to check through. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Posted on 9 years ago
#5
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