I have no definitive proof that these mutts are brass, however there is absolutely no signs for aging or 'patina' on these. I'm talking trumpet, trombone, tuba BRASS coloring. I searched for a simple test that would confirm my opinion. I found one but it involved a drop of rather aggressive acid. I passed on it since I was making the attempt to rectify the situation and get the less-than-reputable individual to repent his fraudulent sins. Now I think I'll have to find that test again....The ones that were made in Italy were not made of brass? Thank you! My point exactly! These are brassy brass, brass, brass. Clack, clang, clink, clunk. Zinc, zinc, zinc.

This is a perfect example of a case where it would have been wise to ask the exact size - and that indeed is a reliable indicator. I completely understand your assumption when the seller has several Tosco/Tosco made cymbals. Even if these are not brass - seller should refund the money and a return is in order. You had said - "When I'm right and I've been screwed look out." - I indeed hope that you are wise enough to approach this as if the seller is one of your friends. The seller is a drummer himself and can completely relate to your dissatisfaction and empathize with you - then may indeed may turn out to be a friend in time. You gave the benefit of the doubt at first with this seller. It appears the cymbals were not as described - but still the best course of action to continue to give the seller the benefit of the doubt. It might cost you some shipping expenses in the end, but that is alot less than being stuck with those cymbals and out your cash - especially if they are not the good ones. Keep us informed.

Having seen this listing in question on Ebay and what you paid, I think you could probably get that out of them on Craigslist. Just list them as "student cymbals" when you do. Someone will buy them and you can move on.

drummerjohn333, I agree with you 100%. I kept the seller's ebay handle out of my posts. From what I've seen the seller in question specializes in Italian Toscos. In fact of the 23 Toscos on ebay (as I write this) 18 are from this seller. I gave him the benefit of the doubt based on the fact the he had a history of auctioning many Toscos. Money was not the issue. I have no problem taking a gamble and loosing. However, I accept loosing much less when I've been purposefully deceived. I'd invite anyone reading this to consider the fact that the seller did not respond to my emails, and did not respond to the case I opened (through eBay.) However, after EBAY gave me a refund out of their pocket the seller responded with a mildly belligerent note claiming that I did not contact him. Pluuuuueeease!AND none of that really matters. The reason I brought this up is because I wanted to pick the drum vaults in everybody's brains, so I could learn something. As you said asking about the actual size would have been the test. I've had a learning. More please!

You have handled it with class. I don't think I have much more to share about these - but encourage you to stay tuned to Zenstat and the research he is doing - about many cymbals - but this one (Tosco CB700s) is one of his projects. I have bought 2 of the CB700s 20inch rides.....and both have been pitched way too high to be a good ride cymbal for the set. Anybody ever get one that was not pitched so blasted high? I eventually gave up....and now have a whole CB700 set for sale.....but it includes an MIJ CB700 ride cymbal instead of the Tosco made one. That ride was made by Pearl. My other frustration with these is the 16 inch crash. It sounds so much different from the 18 inch crash....have had about 3 or 4 of the 16s, and none of them sound as good as the 18 (which sounds amazing...best cymbal in the bunch of all the Tosco CBs.