Sounds like someone made an assumption based on a tiny bit of info on the net, listed their item, and pawned it off for someone else to figure out. I would file a claim (if Ebay) and since they were not as described, request that the seller pay for the return label and a full refund.

Thanks Jeff, That was what I started thinking, too. But this seller also has a lot of Tosco cymbals that were marketed under other brand names. I gave him/her the benefit of the doubt. That is why I posted here. I want (and appreciate) more knowledgeable people keeping me straight. I don't want to start a fight without having the facts on my side. I'm always willing to be wrong and admit it. I'll take the hits and appreciate the learning. When I'm right and I've been screwed look out.

CB700 , I'm pretty sure was just a marketing firm, like ProCussion and many others. In fact the very same Tosco, bronze cymbals that say CB 700 on them can be found with ProCussion on them and I think I have seen another brand too.

They were an entry level cymbal but in that role, those Toscos were surprisingly good, in both quality and value. Probably, the truth of economics came home to roost and they had to source an altogether inferior product elsewhere, to keep the entry level price.

Tosco was owned by Sabian, at the time the plant was closed so possibly Sabian offered their buyers of the bronze Toscos something akin to the Sabian made brass Solars to fill the void, for another possibility.Whatever, I have encountered those brass CB700 and they aren't much.

Tris66,

Can you post some pictures of these cymbals you received? Are they as thick as "bronze," because my experience is that NORMALLY brass ones are bendable thin.

Crappy pics on the way out the door. The pile is varying shades of semi clan to dirty cymbals: B8s on the bottom, B20 on the top to show you the color difference of the brass junk in the middle. The things that are red flags to me 1. Brass! 2. They are 13" not 12.5" or 13.5" 3. The bell shape is shallow and does not have the typical roto-cast profile. 4. Lathing (if you can see it) wrong, wrong, wrong, but that happens on BRASS. 5. Thin (both hats under my thumb in that pic) and bendable as jeff_r0x pointed out. 6.No "Tosco" or more likely "Made In Italy" stamp that would have most likely been in ink.

After I replied I went on Ebay and looked up recently sold "CB-700 hi hat," I remember this listing and thinking that they looked really bright. I think the seller had listed a set of 14" CB's that looked closer to what I would think they would look like, that is, cleaned up they would look like the B8 models parked beneath. Most likely some unknown MIJ or Wuhan brass? That was the case for the later CB productions.

Incidentally, Tosco never rotocasted anything.

I have had and seen MANY of these cymbals - the ones that are made in Italy are NOT Brass - no way they could be, as they sound so much better than anything brass could sound like.

The jury is still out on what the Italian CBs are - made by Tosco. Among the several research projects he is doing, Zenstat is investigating the composition of these Tosco made cymbals. Eventually he will be able to reveal (hopefully in a dedicated thread).

Zenstat - out of state for work at the moment - will be sending that sample eventually!

This is a perfect example of a case where it would have been wise to ask the exact size - and that indeed is a reliable indicator. I completely understand your assumption when the seller has several Tosco/Tosco made cymbals.

Even if these are not brass - seller should refund the money and a return is in order. You had said - "When I'm right and I've been screwed look out." - I indeed hope that you are wise enough to approach this as if the seller is one of your friends. The seller is a drummer himself and can completely relate to your dissatisfaction and empathize with you - then may indeed may turn out to be a friend in time.

You gave the benefit of the doubt at first with this seller. It appears the cymbals were not as described - but still the best course of action to continue to give the seller the benefit of the doubt. It might cost you some shipping expenses in the end, but that is alot less than being stuck with those cymbals and out your cash - especially if they are not the good ones.

Keep us informed.

I have no definitive proof that these mutts are brass, however there is absolutely no signs for aging or 'patina' on these. I'm talking trumpet, trombone, tuba BRASS coloring. I searched for a simple test that would confirm my opinion. I found one but it involved a drop of rather aggressive acid. I passed on it since I was making the attempt to rectify the situation and get the less-than-reputable individual to repent his fraudulent sins. Now I think I'll have to find that test again....

The ones that were made in Italy were not made of brass? Thank you! My point exactly! These are brassy brass, brass, brass. Clack, clang, clink, clunk. Zinc, zinc, zinc.