Well one say it on the inside bell so the chances are good.

Maybe contact cymbalholic 1st...before spending that kind of cash&time..

Best to have pics of genuine Cyms on yr cell...then go look for the proper stamps,etc..

Italian junk. Leave them in the attic.

Cymbalholic? Seriously?

Who over there knows anything about vintage cymbals that they didn't get from me first? And that includes Scott what's his name.

Do you want this guy to get an informed answer from an expert, or a just a B.S. answer from some wanna-be?

For the latter I would refer you to Cymbalholic.

I presumed he meant you: Drumaholic

and mistyped it as Cymbalholic. I made that same mistake myself once on VDF, and BosLover caught it for me. A freudian slip. :cool:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showpost.php?p=284951&postcount=22

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showpost.php?p=284955&postcount=23

Note that I don't edit or delete my posts to cover up mistakes I've made in identification or the like, but I do sometimes edit typos or proof reading mistakes like these -- but I also leave a trace where it was picked up by somebody else so that nobody thinks I am perfect. After all, I'm just one of those B.S. wanna be answerers you refer to Bill.

Quite the opposite. The Italians wrote things like that to try and pretend they were the real thing. The real ones don't need to pretend. So if somebody writes Constantinople in pen under the bell it probably isn't. Probably in the statistical sense. Drumaholic may know of an instance where Constantinople is written under a genuine one, and if he has such info in his records hopefully he will speak up.

The other obvious Italian feature is the lathing style visible in the photos of the top. Drumaholic may know more specific reasons why it is Italian, but those are the two features I know about. The hammering style is also characteristic of these when combined with that lathing, but as I haven't had lots of these to examine I don't know how generally true this is. But I do always try to give some reasons why a particular conclusion is reached so that we can all gain value.

Below is an annotated pic of what I'm looking at with the lathing, but in words it is that instead of one continuous band across the bow: the lathing looks like it is stepped in maybe 1" sections. I've annotated those places with blue arrows (not always perfectly at the transitions). Hopefully you can see what I mean. Let me know if you need a better picture.

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/Italian-lathing-style.jpg[/img]

Note: I foolishly put the text explaining this in blue as well and it isn't easy to read. Oops.

** EDIT ** I found the other annotated pic of the Italian lathing style I had done previously. Clearer demonstration I think:

[img]http://black.net.nz/cym2014/ItalianLathing.jpg[/img]

Note that this second one doesn't have obvious larger hammering marks like the one you originally posted. They may be there but more subtle, or it is just a different style. There are different styles across the different Italian manufacturers, as well as within one manufacturer. I don't know what they mean, just that the variations exist.

I understand that well now. I see what you mean buy the old vinyl LP type lathe work. Kinda like each one`s a song. That`s if you remember old vinyl LP`s.

Thanx !i

That's a great description of it. Like the gap between songs on old vinyl. And yes, I'm 62 so I certainly remember the vinyl days. I've still got some, but my turntable gave up the ghost long ago...

Wow - thanks for the info, guys!

So, not Constantinoples, huh.

This is exactly why I brought it here.

Now, more of a speculative wondering. Just how bad they are? They're B20, handmade(?) and the seller says they weigh 650 and 630 grams. Still could be nice jazzy set of hi-hats. Or not?

A bit heavy for that diameter, but I suspect they are very nice. Italian for sure. I've been using a set of 13" Vibras lately (also italian) and I like them a lot. Depends what you want to use them for.