I primarily buy vintage A's. they have been down for a several months now. it is certainly a buyers market. the real thin older ones are still doing well. but overall prices are lower. ive bought quite a few and have only sold one lately.

mike

Warning: statistical content. Stop reading when your eyes glaze over.

I would generally support Mike's comments, although I'm not sure that the prices have been down for just several months rather than say, since the GFC really bit. That's really biting by 2008-9. In order to be sure (hey, I'm a statistician) I'd need to have sufficient data further back in time and it needs to be properly recorded not just recollections (which are subject to several kinds of bias). I've got the data for Paiste 602s and Sound Creations, but haven't done sufficient analysis on it yet. And the Paiste 602 and Sound Creation market isn't really the same as the old A market (although we can learn some things about general cymbal consumer behavior from the Paiste data).

As Mike notes, the market isn't uniform. Rarer cymbals (thinner and older) didn't suffer the same dip as the market for more plentiful cymbals. Bill Maley has also noted this (although that was a few years back in a similar discussion). And because of the level of sonic variation between individual cymbals (be it old As or old Turkish Ks) prices are more variable and partly depend on the quality of the individual cymbal and how well that is conveyed in the ad (as in a good quality sound file), the reputation of the seller, and the condition. Also, as a general observation prices in the used cymbal market became more variable after the GFC. Or in the words of the stock analysts "the market is volatile". So you need to be sure you are including all the cymbals (relatively high or low priced) in your analysis. Otherwise your memory can play tricks on you. If you believe prices are low you remember the lowest ones. If you believe prices are high, you remember the highest ones. Neither the few highest nor the few lowest are good estimates of the middle of the distribution for expected price.

I don't know what the "law of commonsense" tells you, but I'd look more closely at the "law of supply and demand". The 1960s and 1970s Avedis Zildjians are in a state where supply exceeds demand. The old Avedis Zildjians appeal to a different market segment from those who want shiny new(er) B8 cymbals.

Well, I haven't been in the market for cymbals for a long, long time. I've still got the same "set" I assembled over about a 3 year period when in HS then my first year of college. All A. Zildjians... and I've never felt the need to buy any others.

20, 18, 16, 15 hihats, and an 8. The 18 was the latest addition, bought it new in 1974 at a music store in Great Bend, Ks. The others were all purchased new from Midwestern Music in Topeka, Ks in 72 and 73.

I know they're worth more to me than I could get out of them.

BTW, I still have the same hard-fiber Humes & Berg (sp?) round black case they traveled in throughout the 70s...

Sorry if this got off the point a little, and sorry for my ramblin'...

Another BTW... the 18 was something called a "brilliant" and had (when new) a real shiny finish that was supposed to be really reflective under stage lighting (or something like that). Anybody remember those?

Now it pretty much looks like the rest of them!

cool story bill!

mike

Its all about what the market will bear. Around a year ago I picked up a very nice 20" trans stamp with a beautiful patina for $135 USD at my local Sam Ash music store. It's become my son's go to ride cymbal for musicals. If I had bought it on eBay I would have been competing with collectors and probably would have had to pay closer to $350 or more for the same cymbal.

It looks like I'm on my own on this one. I was expecting a resounding YES coming from all you vintage drum buffs, but OK. Good information there, Zenstats. Thanks! Very insightful and I'm agreeing with you on a lot of what you said, but I don't think supply vs demand can justify how undervalued these cymbals are. If we're talking about supply, then I believe every drummer in the world should own one of these cymbals. It's the desert island cymbal. Very versatile! I'm sure there are more than enough modern B20 ride cymbals to go around and those things are a lot more expensive than an old Zildjian Avedis which is comparable or if not better than any modern B20 ride cymbal. Let's leave aside the K Istanbuls. I'm talking about your middle of the road 20" ride cymbals.

I wonder what the difference between second hand and vintage is? about 30 years? Even a modern second hand A Zildjian commands a higher price tag than a vintage Avedis Zildjian. Are the modern A Zildjians sonically superior or something? I don't think so. I believe some drummers pay more for the modern As because they like to have that big logo on their cymbal for all to see. I know the modern ones have a brilliant finish, but I'll stick to the old ones. I think they sound better and look better too.

What do you think a 60's or 70's 20" A Zildjian should go for? I've got a few decent, but unremarkable A's from the '60s. But, I personally wouldn't buy most '70's A's even if they were only $50! Now '40s and '50s, that's another thing.

i'm with you. I agree with you and have noticed the market as such for a while now. maybe I didn't come over that clearly in my first post.

mike

I'm not saying these things should be worth their weight in gold, but at the moment they're just about worth their weight in copper. Ha!