Pics please?

BTW,New Beats was invented in early 60's.

So,late 60's/early 70's can be New Beats

Official New Beats came out more towards late 60's,didn't they?

I bought my first pair around 1970...and I remember them calling them "New" at the time....

bellson came up with the concept a little earlier. ive read 63 ish. I think they started marketing them and selling as a pair in 68.

mike

Yes. 1963 and Bellson, according to the timeline in the Zildjian site. And yes they started out having the New Beat name referred to just the bottom which was like a special order heavy bottom to go with a medium top. Later the New Beat name became the pair marketed as such. Although to this day Zildjian still sell single tops or bottoms for hats. This info came to Magnus in an email from Zildjian when he asked about the early ones. I don't know how quickly things moved from the name "New Beat" being referring to just the bottom vs referring to the pair, although I know how the ink changed. Somebody with catalogs from back in the mid through late 60s/early 70s might shed some light on that.

@ Black Label: if they weigh about the same then they aren't New Beats. New Beats are a pairing of a medium top over a heavy bottom. The target weight ratio is about 2:3 so an 800g top would have 1200g bottom. The weight ratio isn't exact. For example, I have an early 14" pair (judged by the specific ink on the bottom) and they are 975g over 1300g. If both hats are a similar weight and light to medium then they are just...hats.

If it matters to you, the pressed in die stamps can distinguish between late 50s, 60s, and 70s. I wrote this up yesterday or the day before so. See:

http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showpost.php?p=298299&postcount=5

We get a question along these lines quite frequently. Drumaholic is the expert but he leaves us novices to answer the easy questions while he does deeper research. If we mess up, then he steps in.

Thank you guys. Here's a pic. They have the 3 doys in the squiggly thingy so it seems as if they are from the 60's. The weights are very similar - in fact it is hard for me to tell which is top and bottom. They are even lighter than my 15" 2002 medium hats. So it seems as if they are just "hats" :-) nice ones though :-).

certainly don't discount their importance just because they might not be new beats. many people use and value matched weight hats as much or more than new beats.

mike

Thanks a lot for all your input. Those hats certainly are sweet. Very mellow, medium pitched and "sloshy" (if there is such a word :-) I enjoy playing them although they will have to me for mellower playing.

What would they be worth, just as a matter of interest? I think they are pretty much matching weight.

Thanks guys.

try weighing them..

if there the exacte same weight..could be a pair of hand held..

or maybe there only off about 60/100grams

As a side interest...

I've been documenting the weights of high hat pairs (along with rides and crashes) and 60 - 100 g is all within the observed range of variation. In other words, 60g difference counts as "the same" and 100g is "nearly the same" in terms of target weights during manufacturing. This goes for old stuff and brand new stuff as well. I know from cymbalmakers that 60 to 100g more is what comes off if you lathe a bit deeper, or the blank was slightly different in weight (of course).

None of this is to suggest that by scientific measurement we can't tell the difference. Of course we can with a good scale. We know they weigh different amounts and that this has sonic implications (all other things being equal, like bow and taper). It's just that 60g - 100g isn't going to have clear implications for the function (as in hand held versus hats). There is too much natural variation to pick function against the background of "noise". Note that I haven't really delved into hand held cymbals, my interest is just drum set cymbals.

I was surprised at the amount of variation when I really started looking. Part of the my surprise was that Paiste 602s (where consistency is often mentioned) are just as variable as Zildjians. That's part of what got me looking a little deeper for an easy way to talk about the expected level of variation. When does a difference of 100g count as "same model according to the maker's intent, and part of the natural variation" versus "likely to be a thin versus a medium according to the maker's intent" once all the ink has gone? That's not just for hats nor for just one manufacturer, but the 100g cutoff comes from cymbals in the weight range of hats. Anyway, there you go. Weighty matters.