[COLOR="DarkRed"]It is an Ajaha. Look at wikipedia, I wrote a description there, which has been added to over time...I hope it's still there, the snot-nosed wiki-police tend to get overzealous sometimes.

John, I have never seen as clear a signature as what you have there. It is actually a pretty rare and valuable cymbal, not so much as a musical instrument but more as just a piece of cymbal history. They are a bit enigmatic....

I have a whole bunch, I kinda collect 'em....but as I said, have never seen a signature as clear and preserved as these.

I will PM you some more info.

They are believed to have been made in Italy starting in the 20's or so...they appear in Gretsch catalogs from the 40's, the ads claiming that they had been around for 30 years already. Although it says Constantinople, it is Drumaholic's feeling that these were Italian-made cymbals attempting to compete with the Turkish cymbals of the time...those being the 2 hotbed areas of cymbalmaking back in the day. he can jump in here, but basing on stylistic grounds, I agree with this theory, as Ajahas resemble more the Italian0crafted cymbals than they do the Turkish-crafted cymbals as far as hammering, profile, lathing, etc.

Nice that you have these. How did you come into owning 'em ?[/COLOR]

jaye, thanks for the input! sounds exciting. i love finding stuff. im a garage saleaholic and also a drummer so occasionally i will find drums and stuff. this was either found at a tag sale or even at the dump. i have half a dozen old slingerlands ludwigs and others ive rescued from the crusher. either way not more than 5 bucks. i was able to get a pic of the top stamp. its not very clear but i think you can see what it looks like. i read your wikipedia thing (nice work) and did it not say ajaha cymbals have no stamp on the top? heres the pic. thanks,ryan

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Yeah ? Glad to hear the article survived the Wiki-Knife all these years...

Let Drumaholic chime in on the stamp, he is really the resident expert (arguably the most knowledgeable cymbal historian on the planet, if truth be told).

When I penned that article/information several years ago, nobody had ever come forward with a cymbal which had the embossment and the Ajaha sig. As the name became a bit more familiar in vintage cymbal circles, more began to surface and be posted online, and that is when the connection started being made...

The interesting thing about your cymbals is that...cymbals have shown up with the Ajaha signature alone...or with the Constantinople signature alone. I even have a PAIR which has the Ajaha and Constantinople signature together (although on mine, the first name is unreadable...while yours is quite legible).....or they show up with just the stamped embossment on top but no signatures anywhere whatsoever.

They all pop up on eBay from time to time, usually carrying only ONE of the 3 defining elements...

[COLOR="Red"][COLOR="DarkOrange"]But here...we actually have one which has all 3 elements: the Ajaha sig, the Constantinople sig, AND the embossed stamp on the top.[/COLOR][/COLOR]

That's pretty wild....[/COLOR]

the plot thickens.... i think you are under the impression i have 2 of these. there is only one. what you are saying is very interesting though. its true this cymbal looks as if it has seen little use and maybe never polished. now when you talk about an embossed stamp i may need clarification on this one because whats on top is definitely a stamp made from some harder metal and hammered into the surface. embossing i thought was a layer over the surface?

That's an unusual example. I say this because Ajaha's never been know to have an impressed trademark, and yet from the signature this clearly is an Ajaha. And it a very old one because its hand signed. Here's another example:

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/ebaycymbals/Ajaha%20Const..jpg[/img]

That impressed trademark stamp is found on another Italian cymbals can a Zveltian. But although I've never seen one before like this with the Ajaha signature underneath, I'm not really that surprised because these were probably both made but the same group of Italian artisans. The Zvetians were made by UFIP, and that's where all the Italian manufacturers eventually ended up together, all being absorbed into the conglomeration of UFIP.

ok. so i see the pic you posted has the ajaha signature on top of constantanople. which i can see is the same as on mine(more or less) but as in my pics on the first post there is also something else written on the other side of the bell. can you make that out? that would make 4 identifiers of some sort correct? im starting to think this should be in some drum museum somewhere. shall we start the bidding at 1? do i hear one thousand dollars? joking.

not to get off subject..... but chinese?

[COLOR="Green"]The top stamp is what I am talking about. Yes, I thought you had 2 cymbals, but it's 2 pics of one, showing the other signature on the other side...I get it ;)

Drumaholic, interesting that it has both the Zvetian and Ajaha attributes....so they likely came from the same workshop ?

John....yes, chinese....hardly as enthralling as the Ajaha, though ;) These china cymbals don't have much market value.....but it does look authentic, for sure....[/COLOR]

This thread inspired me to go through my picture archives. While bowsing through there I found that I have yet another example of this, but I never previously noticed that the signature "Ajaha" was there until now.

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/ebaycymbals/websize/K%20con%2013.4_WEB.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/ebaycymbals/websize/k%20con%2013.1.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/ebaycymbals/websize/K%20con%2013.4_WEB.jpg[/img]

[img]http://photos.imageevent.com/drumaholic/ebaycymbals/websize/k%20con%2013.3.jpg[/img]

I'm glad that this subject came up, because it hjas alerted me to a connection that I previously never knew existed.