Thank you for that detailed response! I learn something new here everyday.
I don't recall what F.A.S.T. stands for, but I do recall it refers to drums that are *sized for maximum resonance. (*The ratio of diameter to depth and how it affects air movement and vibration in the drum and shell,) Is that correct?
John
PS - I Googled F.A.S.T. and got = Fundamentally Accurate Sized Toms
I find it interesting the comparison of the early dw's with camco and tama. and what about hayman? the camco/gretsch floating action, tama pedals, and dw5000 are essentially the same pedal tho correct?
I find it interesting the comparison of the early dw's with camco and tama. and what about hayman? the camco/gretsch floating action, tama pedals, and dw5000 are essentially the same pedal tho correct?
Sorry Kook, I would like to help but unfortunately I don't have the complete history of the Camco 5000 BD Pedal or the relationships and time frames with the other companies.
Yes, it's a 2nd gen. badge dating it to 1990 or the early 90s. In case anyone is interested. The 1st dw drums were Keller shelled maple finish 6/6ply snare drums(1981) (6x14") only, that had the same diameter as the L.A. era Camco snare drums at 13 13/16" for a 14" SD. When dw began making sets/kits(1982) they were all 6/6ply Keller maple, (Like L.A. era Camcos) with a no choice natural maple finish. Although the early 6x14" snare drums had undersized shells, the toms and bass drums could not have standard sized depths AND have undersized shells, otherwise it would have been a violation of design and ownership rights Tama had to the Camco shells. The early toms and bass drums all had extended length, 10x12" 16x22" 17x16" etc. Left over shells at the Camco factory all went to Tama, along with the rights to the design of the shells and the blue prints. The early dw drum kits were possibly Camco designated shells that had been made in advance and on hand and in stock, at Keller. By 1990 (2nd generation badges), dw had returned to offering standard size depth toms along with the introduction of F.A.S.T. Toms with multiple finish choices.
1990, should be 1993. I know this because a colleague has a kit with the first black/silver badge (with the ''a quality instrument'' inscription) which he bought new in 1993.
Here is a time-line of the badges:
http://www.mikedolbear.com/story.asp?StoryID=3629
According to this article by master Mike Dolbear, they started with Phenolic shells for a short period before turning to the Keller shells.
This is my vintage 80's (very early with a 03805 till -9 serial-number on the badges)
[IMG]https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13428414_10209770739324810_5102821899223855279_n.jpg?oh=1f393ba2ca0b06e61f7597264131d4ea&oe=581857DF[/IMG]
[IMG]https://scontent-amt2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13434837_10209770739404812_8786559217928442674_n.jpg?oh=acacacd23381be4170667a689cddb3d2&oe=58183A06[/IMG]
The Camco T-rods where changed to regular ones by the previous owner. The kit was located in Nashville, so a great humidity and because of that its in extremely mint condition.
The 8'' was made in the early days of the 2nd gen badge era ('93-'97) and has a B (at DW used for Birch drums) in the serial number prefix. Yet this is a full Maple shell and sounds with exactly the same sound characteristics.
The sound is amazing, and the shells are so thin and light. Add to this to the Purecussion rims, the drums speak so musically (even with the Pinstripes, which in this case only control the sustain a bit in the studio) So different from modern DW's. Love them till death.
[QUOTE=musiqman;393447]According to this article by master Mike Dolbear, they started with Phenolic shells for a short period before turning to the Keller shells[.QUOTE]
The article is by drummer Bob Henrit. I've never heard, seen or read any mention of the phenolic shells from anyone associated with DW.
He must got this from something, the read is quite thorough. To post something as fact on such a famous platform must have some aprovement of DW (especially to still be online after 3 years)
I would love to see and hear a Phenolic DW drum.
I find it interesting the comparison of the early dw's with camco and tama. and what about hayman? the camco/gretsch floating action, tama pedals, and dw5000 are essentially the same pedal tho correct?
The Camco 5000/Gretsch Floating action and the EARLY DW 5000 pedals are exactly the same, aside from different tooling for the foot board lettering. The Tama/Camco chain drive pedal was a reverse engineering feat by Tama to offer the "same" pedal that Camco used to offer before they bought the rights to the Camco name. Seems that DW bought the tooling for all the hardware from Camco lock, stock, and barrel and Tama bought the name only.
If you wanted the "real deal" Camco pedal after Tama bought the name, you bought a DW pedal. If you thought you were buying the real deal when you bought a Tama era Camco pedal, you were actually buying a reverse engineered copy. BTW, Camco never offered their pedal in a chain drive. Those were conversions done at Frank Ippilitos in NYC. DW bought the patent rights from Ippilitos for the chain drive, offered it themselves first, then Tama copied it. I'm sure that Tama had to pay some sort of royalty to DW for the rights to make the new Camco chain drive pedal in order not to be sued by DW, even though Tama owned the Camco name.
I believe that DW kept producing the Floating Action for Gretsch for a few years after they bought the Camco tooling. I've seen the Floating Action pedal listed in Gretsch catalogs as late as 1982.......so unless Gretsch had a huge stockpile of Floating Action pedals made before DW's time, I'm almost sure DW continued making them for Gretsch for a time.
BTW, this famous pedal started life in the 1930's, well before Camco, as the Martin Fleetfoot pedal. And yes, it is pretty much the same pedal it's always been.
Oh, and I'd like to clarify what I meant by "early DW" pedals. Sometime in the late 1980's they changed the tooling and kept on improving the pedal to the version that's made today. While it is similar to Camco pedals of the past, almost nothing is interchangeable anymore, and I personally think the feel of the pedal has changed significantly from the early days.
Confused yet? LoLoLoLo
Unfortunately I no longer have these drums, and no record of the numbers. When I sold them I was a little tortured over whether they would someday become collectors items as they were very early, before the rims mounts etc. Before I sold them I inquired with DW as to the serial numbers and whoever responded said they had no records and also that they were not making drums at the time I remembered buying them. (I think I was not connected with the right person at DW.)At the time I purchased the drums I was studying with a guy named Freddie Gruber, who knew the founders of DW. One day I went for a lesson and he had an identical kit set up in his living room. I asked about them and he told me that DW was starting production of drums (I was familiar with the pedal); that they had purchased the Camco tooling with the goal of building quality drums in the USA (no offense to fans of Ludwig, Rogers etc who were building drums here at the time). I believe the set he had at his house was going out on tour with Burleigh Drummond of Ambrosia. A few months after that, I saw the set that I eventually purchased at the original Guitar Center store in Hollywood. I used to go there every few weeks and figured they wouldn't last long there. They were still there several months later and I was in a position to purchase so I did; I got the impression that the store was happy to see the "back side" of the drums and have them off the floor. It's funny now, but I caught a lot of flak from friends about buying a No-name drum set for a relatively high price. Also the natural wood finish was not a very popular item at the time. Camco experts in the house might know but I suspect these were basically Camco shells with a DW logo.I probably shouldn't have sold them.
Heres Grubers kit
