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how do you tell if rivet holes are factory original?

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I'm curious about this. I bought a kit that came with a 60s Zildjian with 6 rivet holes. It looks cleanly done, and they're VERY evenly spaced. Since I have little to no experience with riveted cymbals (I usually avoid them, but this one came with a kit), I'm wondering what the criteria is for determining whether the holes are factory drilled or done by a previous owner--what clues do I look for? Thanks!

1970 Ludwig Downbeat
1965 Ludwig Hollywood
1970 Ludwig Jazzette
Posted on 10 years ago
#1
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A receipt. Other than that, it's easy for a competent shop (drum shop, metal shop, etc) to drill holes which are indistinguishable from "factory" ones.

Unless somebody else has a scientific method I haven't heard of yet...

Posted on 10 years ago
#2
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But that begs the question:

Why does it matter?

Posted on 10 years ago
#3
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From Drumaholic

But that begs the question:Why does it matter?

MANY questions on this site could beg that question! :D

It is a topic I've never heard addressed before, and was wondering if anybody on this fine site where we congregate to discuss the minor details of the instruments we love had any info.

1970 Ludwig Downbeat
1965 Ludwig Hollywood
1970 Ludwig Jazzette
Posted on 10 years ago
#4
Posts: 5550 Threads: 576
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usually the pattern and patina will b the telltale sign i have a factory 70's pang with rivets .....bought new it came with a ss kit i had

April 2nd 1969 scarfed pink champagne holly wood and 65/66 downbeat snare, and , supra same year very minty kit old pies
66/67 downbeat with canister
Super 400 small round knob
1967 super classic obp





once the brass ceases to glitter, and the drum looses its luster, and the stage remains dark, all you have left is the timbre of family.
Posted on 10 years ago
#5
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A few clues I would think to look for:

1. Are the holes evenly spaced and clean?

2. How far are the holes in from the outer edge (Zildjian factory is 1.5"-at least on non-Pang/Chinas). It's possible that an after market shop did them the same distance away from the edge, but if its not 1.5", then you know they are not factory.

3. Are "official" Zildjian rivets currently in the holes? What I mean by this is are the rivets the kind that look like an asterisk at the bottom? No other place I know of is able to flange the rivets out in the asterisk shape like Zildjian (or Sabian) does. Even with "official" Zildjian rivets, most professional shops either crimp the edges or flange them out slightly, not in the asterisk shape.

Hope this helps,

V

Posted on 10 years ago
#6
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Sometimes the wear under the rivets can tell you if they have been there a long time

Posted on 10 years ago
#7
Posts: 5356 Threads: 87
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From jaghog

usually the pattern and patina will b the telltale sign i have a factory 70's pang with rivets .....bought new it came with a ss kit i had

That's cool. I never knew the Pangs came with rivets.

Glenn.

Not a guru just havin fun with some old dusty drums.
Posted on 10 years ago
#8
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From vyacheslav

A few clues I would think to look for:1. Are the holes evenly spaced and clean?2. How far are the holes in from the outer edge (Zildjian factory is 1.5"-at least on non-Pang/Chinas). It's possible that an after market shop did them the same distance away from the edge, but if its not 1.5", then you know they are not factory.3. Are "official" Zildjian rivets currently in the holes? What I mean by this is are the rivets the kind that look like an asterisk at the bottom? No other place I know of is able to flange the rivets out in the asterisk shape like Zildjian (or Sabian) does. Even with "official" Zildjian rivets, most professional shops either crimp the edges or flange them out slightly, not in the asterisk shape.Hope this helps,V

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

Thank you for your help! :D

1970 Ludwig Downbeat
1965 Ludwig Hollywood
1970 Ludwig Jazzette
Posted on 10 years ago
#9
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No problem good sir!

My guess is that they are probably original then, caddy.

Let those things dance up a storm!

Posted on 10 years ago
#10
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