And I say its all a crock of B.S.

The Avedis Zildjian Co. was founded in 1929. They had nothing to do with the original Zildjian Co, K. Zildjian, and in fact when the K. Zildjian still existed, and for many years the Avedis Zildjian Co. went to great lengths in all their ads to specifically emphasize that they were in no way connected with them; claiming that they and only they were the true Zildjian, and by inference insinuating that the K. Zildjian Co. was somehow fraudulent.

But now that the old K. Zildjian Co. no longer exists and seeing as how yhe Avedis Zildjian Co. has purchased the rights to the old K. Zildjian trademark, now they want to pretend as if they were one and the same and claim for themselves the entire entire Zildjian history going all the way back to 1623.

So it seems that now after all those years of denying any connection with them, they now want to claim that they were both one and the same company all along. That doesn't even pass the smell test. They can't possibly have it both ways, but that's exactly what their trying to do. I don't buy it.

I don't get it...Zildjian is a family and they are sharing secret of alloy only between members. A zildjian left Turkey to USA, same story in 80's when Sabian has been established.

In some point maybe it started to become some tensions between A and K business, K were made "far far away from USA" so it's easy to put in "doubt" the cymbal quality. Especially in local USA paper ad.

Then let me clarify things for you.

That's wrong. The secret was passed on to only the senior male heir. They didn't "share" it with anybody. If you don't believe that then then get yourself a copy of the book entitled: "Zildjian: A History of the Legendary Cymbal Makers", and read about what happened when Mikial Dlugarian when he tried to get Kerope to give him the secret.

And that's also wrong. "A Zildjian" as a company was never in Turkey. Aram Zildjian came to America to give the secret to his nephew Avedis who was already in the USA at the time. But there was never any business connection with the original company in Istanbul.

By "A" I meant name, not company, little misunderstood. Avedis started his business in USA, no doubt about it.

If there was no business connection then K.zildjian would never share alloy secret to anybody. I think you should jump back to 1920's. USA...no world war I , nice economy (before crisis), new music...What was Turkey as a country and economy in 1920's? It was good idea to establish independent business in USA at that time. Unfortunately disturbed by crisis. Avedis has right to say that continues heritage. Even if runs independent business, it's still same name.

Thats my point of view. And this is good discussion.

"Today, as in the past 300 years, K. Zildjian & CIE, of Constantinople, (Istanbul) Turkey, leads the way in fine cymbal-making. This famous factory has NO branches..." This from the 1954 Gretsch catalog.

Yup. And then I could also show you ads from the Avedis side saying that THEY are the ONLY true Zildjian. That was a nearly 50 year long family feud that finally culminated in a court case in 1959.

Just one thing ... You can write in ad whatever you want. I would not refer to it.

Although, if there was a battle in court, it's clear that something went wrong.

Yeah, you're right. Something did go wrong.

AVEDIS ZILDJIAN LOST.

Drumaholic: hail to the Lost!

I have a lot of respect to K zildjian craftsmen, I also have a lot of respect to Avedis guys, even if they were unclear. Maybe we should be happy that not all zildjian collapsed in 1977( but why actually THAT one?). What the world would be? Paiste?! ;)

Thanks to ringo era Avedis grew up to giant and was able to take weak K under their wings. Why K was weak? Because they were too conservative and didn't follow music industry demands.

What would Avedis do is to come back to Istanbul and establish K factory. We all know that the K sound is the Bosphorus water