I have a 20in 505 Ride that I kept because I thought it sounded more pretty than a Zildjian from the 70s that I had. It certainly has nice bright beauty to it, though honestly, I wish the bell was a bit more loud and articulate - it is also a bit difficult to play for some reason. But the rest of the cymbal I love. Does anyone else have the same frustration with the 505 bells? I am using 404 crashes (black label) and am eager to hear a recording that I cut last week....needs a bit of mixing. Just a demo - but eager to hear how good the 404s will sound. BTW, love my 400 HHs Actually the trick is to use it with a heavy bottom (of any kind), especially the soundedge, mastersound, soundwave, etc. John

I had a 22" heavy ride that I bought in the 80's and played for over 20 years, it was a great ride.

I have a 20in 505 Ride that I kept because I thought it sounded more pretty than a Zildjian from the 70s that I had. It certainly has nice bright beauty to it, though honestly, I wish the bell was a bit more loud and articulate - it is also a bit difficult to play for some reason. But the rest of the cymbal I love. Does anyone else have the same frustration with the 505 bells? I am using 404 crashes (black label) and am eager to hear a recording that I cut last week....needs a bit of mixing. Just a demo - but eager to hear how good the 404s will sound. BTW, love my 400 HHs Actually the trick is to use it with a heavy bottom (of any kind), especially the soundedge, mastersound, soundwave, etc. John

Through a trade, I recently acquired a 22" "Ride" that I decided to play next to my 20" "Medium" ride. The 22 is drier, with that classy ping that cuts - beautiful - for my DRY ride. Then I have the 20 which is a beautiful WET ride. I then thought a bit out of the box and started crashing my 20, which crashes very well, and adds more volume for a big crash when crashing with others. It is louder and fuller than my 404s, and that is as much mixing I would want to do (of the 505s and 404s). The 404s sound great, though the spread is thinner (more focused) and I think they are a bit darker than the 505. So, my ride options are complete and I also am changing my style to involve the mixed use of the riding and crashing of the 20. It is very nice to have the 2 options and they will both work well even with B20s as crashes (though I might not crash the 20 much in that case). I have added to the mix (the B8 line-up) a Older Italian made CB700 18" Crash. While it is not identicle in sound, it is bright like these 404s and 505s and is a good cymbal to match up next to the 20" (crash/ride I would now call it).Still waiting on the mixdown to hear the 404 crashes. If I get time to, I will shoot a video to show this line-up, though I am not sure the sound quality will be all that great. At least the difference between the 404s and 505s will be shown and that the 404s sound great (though different).If funds were unlimited, I would have snagged up a 404 ride by now, as I have heard they are great - especially for jazz. Sometimes they can be cost half as much as a typical good sounding ride (especially when it is dirty and ugly).John

404s and 505s are longtime favorites of many studio players. Check out Tommy Wells's many posts on them over at DFO. I think there was even a thread within the past week on them...

I would love to - but that forum (and this one) will not search for 505 or 404 or MIJ or most any short 'word' or acronym. It is frustrating.I DID see the thread over there about cleaning a 505. Yup - I have 2 of those I need to clean, but have never cleaned a Paiste before. Any advice for me, as so much was said over there and not much of a concensus. Love Bonzoleum vids too!John