You stated something about de-bunk`n a myth, where do you intend to get the facts that this sounds better than that and this myth is busted ??

yes the stambuls clean up very nice, her is some old zildjians that dont clean so easy

So your telling every one that dirty grimy cymbal sound better than something that has been brought back to its original state , that fine with me i'm not going to fight you on that thats your opinion i can respect that. but there are members here that would like to voice there opinion on the matter but they email me instead of getting shot in the face by guy's like you.

Those Zildjians are definately gonna be harder to clean all the patina off of. They have knurling incorporated with the latheing, I think that is to give it more surface area and more thick and thin spots !! Where as if I took a cymbal like that china that has no lathe, I could just hit it with a cloth wheel !!

No, and you don`t say what I`m saying, I do !!

I`m not being adveserial at all, and if members feel offended, that is not my intent, I`m saying that there is no myth to debunk, proveing one cymbal sounds better than the other, is not doable !!

Does cleanning a cymbal prevent fingerprints and patina from re-occurring,... ??

As far as appearance goes, nothing looks worse than a shiny cymbal with dark fingerprints all over it !! A cymbal with a uniform coat of patina will not look like that after touching it !! It can be argued for appearance sake that patina lessens the need to clean !!

Rene is one stand up guy! I know from experience in dealing with this gentleman several times. All he is saying is that he is able to clean and polish a cymbal until it glistens. Of course, sound is subjective! We all know that. Of course, one will get fingerprints on a newly polished cymbal! Sure. If you like your cymbals glistening, Rene can make it happen. If you like your patina as it is, good for you. Aren't we individuals? Most human beings are entitled to an opinion. Let's respect the other side of the coin!!!

I would not disrespect anyone here, I wasn`t brought up that way,..I wanna make sure that the other side of the coin is shown.

I`ve seen too many people pay short money to get excellent cleanning and they love it til the patina starts again. A cymbal is Bronze, it`s not like you`re cleanning a paper towel !! Shiny clean cymbals need to be cleaned within a few hours after useing or you will need to deep clean again.

I`ve seen alot of cases where cleanning is neccessary to save the cymbal from green`n, once that starts you get pitting.....and that`s not good !!

i just hope the members don`t get a nasty taste for me because I`m not about that !!

There are far too many people that don`t know about cymbal care and anyone offering cymbal service and expertise is ok in my book !!

Come to think about it, I`ve not seen anyone I know of that offers cleanning, hand out a little pamflet of cymbal facts and care with the reciept !!

You are absolutely right, OddBall about people not knowing about cymbal cleaning. I know that I sure could use some pointers! It's also good to see a fellow member who looks out for others on the forum while allowing for divers opinions to be expressed. That's what this forum needs.

Brian