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Lesson on How to buy Vintage or New timbales

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How to buy a set of timbales

1) Know how are you going to use them example timbales come in numerous sizes. They also come in different metals examples Brass, steel and Bronze, You also have to be on look out due to that many companies make them of steel and plate them in Brass,bronze,copper and a few other colors. Any drum that is plated is made of steel.

The best sounding timbales are made of Brass they give you a warm sound.

Timbales made of steel give you a higher pitch when playing what is called Cascara.

Bronze timbales is a mid range timbales the cascara is a bit lower in tone than the steel, but not as warm as the brass. Stay away from Japanese models they sound very tinny.

How to pick a great sounding timbales; Heads factor very much in sound of your cascara so to get an appropriate sound out of the cascara, I recommend us a raw hide maraca the tone of you cascara should sound a bit lower in pitch than the maraca. If its to high then change skins to accommodate that sound.

Wooden timbales; True Name ( Tarolas ) STAY AWAY! The sound is great. The problem if you play them in the proper way of playing them they will crack. This is what lead to make metal timbales back 1920's. In order for these timbales to produce a perfect cascara you must use 1/2 sticks at all times causing the the wood to UN glue and at time crack. These timbales also have a thud sound and not the tradicional sound of the timbales so-posed to be. They are designed to be played with Half inch sticks to produce it proper sound of a gua gua. They are in reality made to play folkloric music. such as the Guaguanco , Columbia , The Bomba and a few other rhythms.

How to determined what size you need.

10/12 Designed to be used as tom toms on a drum kit and not as regular timbales

13/14 Best for any band that consist of 8-10 musicians. Traditional size

14/15 Best for large bands that consist of 12-18 musicians. Designed for volume

15/16 Deep shell timbales ( paila Charangeras) made for what is called charangas these drums sound deeper and were designed to play Rhythms Like Danzon and pachanga Rhythms. They are also used in mexican Band music due to it deep sounding drums.

9/10 What is call timbalitos or Paila those drums are made with two purpose in mind. 1) as a soloing Drum 2) the original way as a metal bongo.

John Dolmayan Timbale and similar type sets are made for affects sizes 6/8 do not produce a true timbale sound. You only get minor affects of a timbales rim shots and muffle sounds

Pan timbales these come in numerous sizes 13,14,and 15, these are designed for the Use with drum Kits to give the affect of a timbales drum set.

Hand Made timbales: Those of you looking into hand crafted timbales LOOK OUT if person making them does not know his metals you may land with a timbale that sounds lousy. Some will make them to tick and need thick sticks to play them and they will sound distorted, others use metals that are to thin and they will ring. It is better to buy factory made sets you have the options to choose a good made set.

When buying used Vintage timbales make sure they come with stands. Many of vintage sets if you are not handy or have someone to make stand for you, it Can become expensive. timbales with to many holes leave them alone, will sound distorted. If need welding make sure you have someone that know how to weld proper not every welder know how to weld.

Make sure your vintage timbales has no cracks. Brass has a tendency of cracking. Steel sets rot out and rust and pitting sets in.

How to select a set of timbales that sounds good, take a rawhide Maraca shake, you timbales cascara should sound alike or a bite higher if steel.

Calf heads; Very important part of the sound in a set of timbales . If you use Plastic heads they ring quite a bit also the cascara of the timbales sound distorted due to the plastic , select a good plastic skin for a close to perfect sound. My recommendation is to use the Remo Fiber Skins apposed to the Ambassadors the give you a better sound on the timbales or some thing equivalent. But the first choice will always be calf skins.

Stick; Depending on the material that shell are made and music you are playing size will give you a good sound. Use of thick sticks can produce a distorted sound if shell are not made proper.

Hope this help those of you looking to buy a set and those that already have sets of timbales. This applies when buying any other instrument.

Posted on 12 years ago
#1
Posts: 1525 Threads: 127
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That's very informative cuquito. Here are my N.J. 1980 LP Stainless Steel 14" & 15" Tito Puente Model. Here is a pic of him playing the exact make timbales.

This is the typical setup I use when performing percussion with the Reggae Band "Tropical Soul".

[IMG]http://www.drumchat.com/picture.php?albumid=597&pictureid=5102[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l37/1vibes/Percussion/titopuente740.jpg[/IMG]

Posted on 12 years ago
#2
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Another word of caution is about the vintage lightweight timbales that were sold by the major drum companies(i.e., WFL, Ludwig). These can be very disappointing. They can't take very much tension before the shell begins to deform, & never produce a true timbale voice. The shells, lugs hoops & tension rods are all inadequate. It's tempting to get a vintage set, they are attractive & have some vintage cache, but they do not really deliver. I've had some Leedy Humberto Morales, & several LP Timbales & Timbalitos, & their engineering & construction are a world apart from the lightweight vintage sets.

Posted on 12 years ago
#3
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From tdennis

Another word of caution is about the vintage lightweight timbales that were sold by the major drum companies(i.e., WFL, Ludwig). These can be very disappointing. They can't take very much tension before the shell begins to deform, & never produce a true timbale voice. The shells, lugs hoops & tension rods are all inadequate. It's tempting to get a vintage set, they are attractive & have some vintage cache, but they do not really deliver. I've had some Leedy Humberto Morales, & several LP Timbales & Timbalitos, & their engineering & construction are a world apart from the lightweight vintage sets.

Tdennis

WFL and Ludwig made a good timbales Back in the fifty's, In the 60's they converted into making timbales out of steel and plating them. But the problem was not lug, shell's or Hoops. There problem was they continued making them with the same Technic that they made them in the fifty's but in steel using same gauge that brass demanded. Yet to add to the problem they put plastic heads that cause the drums to ring even more. If you take any one of those timbales and put calf heads on them you will hear a world of difference. The Humberto Morales has this same problem when used with plastic heads, even on the LP drums has this problem.The Gauge is not proper on many of sets made If you try any timbal with Calf head you will see a major difference over Plastic heads in there sound. Musicians Like my self that use Leedy, Rogers and Cuban made timbales, use them with Calf head on recordings because they are captured with it's true sound. Also the Cascara changes completely to a dryer sound. What you may mean are tin made Japaneses model that is real no good.

Posted on 12 years ago
#4
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Great Post, All.

Coffee Break2

Proudly Endorsing Drums and Cymbals

Posted on 12 years ago
#5
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Here You have a few sets WFL,ROGERS,LEEDY,Gon bops AND A CUBAN SETs FROM 1940's all these set have great sound and all produced by having Calf heads on them. All these set were made to be used with Calf head Not plastic as today they are being used.

1) Cuban set 1940's

2) Leedy before endorsed by Humberto Morales

3) Gon bops One of kind never made for the maket

4) Rogers 1967 Humberto Morales only year made

5) WFL 1957 first year they made timbales made to follow Leedy's foot steps

Posted on 12 years ago
#6
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Those Gon Bop congas look sweet!!

From tdennis

Another word of caution is about the vintage lightweight timbales that were sold by the major drum companies(i.e., WFL, Ludwig). These can be very disappointing. They can't take very much tension before the shell begins to deform, & never produce a true timbale voice. The shells, lugs hoops & tension rods are all inadequate. It's tempting to get a vintage set, they are attractive & have some vintage cache, but they do not really deliver. I've had some Leedy Humberto Morales, & several LP Timbales & Timbalitos, & their engineering & construction are a world apart from the lightweight vintage sets.

1960's SONOR 12-16-20-14 blue slate pearl
1968 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-14Sky blue P
1972 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-14BlueVistalite
1972 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-(14 impostor)BlackPanther "SOLD"
1964 Ludwig Oyster Black Pearl 22-12-13-16-14Supra "SOLD"
1969 LUDWIG 12-13-16-22-14 Citrus Mod "SOLD"
1969 LUDWIG Sexto-Plus 8-1 0-12-13-14-15-16-20-20-14 Silver Sparkle
60's Majestic Delux 12-13-16-22-14 red pearl
2009 Homemade Kids 8-10-13-16-12 Orange Sparkle
24 kits, 80 Snares, 65 Cymbals
Don't tell my wife!
Posted on 12 years ago
#7
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From cuquito717

How to buy a set of timbales 1) Know how are you going to use them example timbales come in numerous sizes. They also come in different metals examples Brass, steel and Bronze, You also have to be on look out due to that many company's make them of steel and plate them in Brass,bronze,copper and a few other colors. Any drum that is plated is made of steel. The best sounding timbales are made of Brass they give you a warm sound.Timbales made of steel give you a higher pitch when playing what is called Cascara.Bronze timbales is a mid range timbales the cascara is a bit lower in tone than the steel, but not as warm as the brass. Stay away from Japanese models they sound very tinny. How to pick a great sounding timbales; Heads factor very much in sound of you cascara so to get an appropriate sound out of the cascara, I recommend us a raw hide maraca the tone of you cascara should sound a bit lower in pitch than the maraca. If its to high then change skins to accommodate that sound. Wooden timbales; True Name ( Tarolas ) STAY AWAY! The sound is great. the problem if you play them in the proper way of playing them they will crack. This is what lead to make metal timbales back 1920's. In order for these timbales to produce a perfect cascara you must use 1/2 sticks at all times causing the the wood to UN glue and at time crack. How to determined what size you need.13/14 best for any band that consist of 8-10 musicians.14/15 best for large bands that consist of 12-18 musicians.15/16 deep shell timbales ( paila Charangeras) made for what is called charangas these drums sound deeper and were designed to play Rhythms Like Danzon and pachanga Rhythms9/10 what is call timbalitos or Paila those drums are made with two purpose in mind. 1) as a soloing Drum 2) the original way as a metal bongo.John Dolmayan Timbale and similar type sets are made for affects sizes 6/8 do not produce a true timbale sound. You only get minor affects of a timbales rim shots and muffle sounds Pan timbales these come in numerous sizes 13,14,and 15, these are designed for the Use with drum Kits to give the affect of a timbales drum set.Hand Made timbales: Those of you looking into hand crafted timbales LOOK OUT if person making them does not know his metals you may land with a timbale that sounds lousy. Some will make them to tick and need thick sticks to play them and they will sound distorted, others use metals that are to thin and they will ring. It is better to buy factory made sets you have the options to choose a good made set. When buying used Vintage timbales make sure they come with stands. Many of vintage sets if you are not handy or have someone to make stand for you, it Can become expensive. timbales with to many holes leave them alone, will sound distorted. If need welding make sure you have someone that know how to weld proper not every welder know how to weld.Make sure your vintage timbales has no cracks. Brass has a tendency of cracking. Steel sets rot out and rust and pitting sets in. How to select a set of timbales that sounds good, take a rawhide Maraca shake, you timbales cascara should sound alike or a bite higher if steel.Calf heads; Very important part of the sound in a set of timbales . Plastic heads ring quite a bit also the cascara of the timbales sound distorted due to the plastic , select a good plastic skin for a close to perfect sound. Stick; Depending on the material that shell are made and music you are playing size will give you a good sound. Use of thick sticks can produce a distorted sound if shell are not made proper.Hope this help those of you looking to buy a set and those that already have sets of timbales.

Excellent thread Cuco and thanks for having posted this great timbale information.This forum is very fortunate to have your timbale knowledge within it.Thank you.

Wayne

1967 Rogers Cleveland Champagne Sparkle
20,16,13,13.
1967/68 Rogers Dayton Champagne Sparkle
20,16,13,13.
1966 Rogers cob 7 Line Dynasonic Snare.
1967 Rogers "Humberto Morales" Timbales.
1980 Ludwig B/O badge 14x 6.5 Black Beauty Snare.
1980 Ludwig B/O badge Red Cortex
22,22,18,16,15,14,13.
1988 Sonor "Horst Link" HLD 590 14x8 Bronze Snare
Posted on 10 years ago
#8
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I have to agree with Wayne! Your knowledge of Latin instruments fills a huge gap in the knowledge base that is offered here at VDF. With you around, whenever an expert on vintage Latin instruments is called for, spotlight on Cuco!

Thanks for taking the time to write this info down for all of us. I may not be in the market for a set of timbales today, but tomorrow, who knows? If, or when I ever do look for timbales, I will refer to this article.

John

(Yo soy Latino. Los miembros de mi familia me llaman, Tito, after Tito Puente - Because I've been a drummer all my life!)

Too many great drums to list here!

http://www.walbergandauge.com/VintageVenue.htm
Posted on 10 years ago
#9
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I'm heading to Cuba in a month or so. What do you think my chances are of finding some old timbales (to buy) while I'm there (I'm supposing slim and none)?

Given the economic problems the island has had for so many years I'm guessing that, like the 1950s cars, they're also hanging on to the old instruments and really, really looking after them.

Have a few musicians contacts and will try and get a lesson or two while I'm there but definitely interested to hear if anyone has first hand experience on second-hand gear (the Canadians, I suppose).

Posted on 10 years ago
#10
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