Only Admins can see this message.
Data Transition still in progress. Some functionality may be limited until the process is complete.
Processing Attachment, Gallery - 132.66806%

Drilling, Rivets and a Sizzling Sizzler!

Loading...

Yesterday, I finished the last phase of converting an old 16 inch crash (which I never really liked) into a sizzle cymbal which I now highly value. I am very slow and meticulous in anything I do so it took a bit of time. First, a template was made by simply tracing around the cymbal onto a piece of bristol board. Ten small holes were punched into the bristol board at 36 degree angles, an inch from the edge. The template was secured to the underside of the cymbal and washable marker was used to mark the holes. Template removed. Marks were measured in order to triple-check accuracy. A dot of permanant marker was applied over washable dots. A friend opperated a small home drill press and I held the cymbal securely on the bed (board underneath) while he drilled from the underside with a small bit as a pilot hole (medium speed). A 3/16 inch bit was employed next. The holes came out perfectly! Ten split rivets were positioned in the holes. The sound is remarkable! With split rivets, they can be easily removed if the sizzle is too much. I would never do this to a valuable vintage cymbal but, in this case, the project turned out better than I anticipated. Love this cymbal!

Brian

Just a drummer who loves all things about vintage drums! Nothing more, nothing less.
Posted on 12 years ago
#1
Posts: 6287 Threads: 375
Loading...

Cool project, Salty.

Thanks for the step-by-step, too !!

Kevin
Posted on 12 years ago
#2
Posts: 2212 Threads: 95
Loading...

I installed 8 rivets in a hollow logo 16 that I wasn't crazy about and liked it as well! I am now using it as a bottom hat paired with a thin 60's top, FANTASTIC!

Posted on 12 years ago
#3
Loading...

From salty 1322

Yesterday, I finished the last phase of converting an old 16 inch crash (which I never really liked) into a sizzle cymbal which I now highly value. I am very slow and meticulous in anything I do so it took a bit of time. First, a template was made by simply tracing around the cymbal onto a piece of bristol board. Ten small holes were punched into the bristol board at 36 degree angles, an inch from the edge. The template was secured to the underside of the cymbal and washable marker was used to mark the holes. Template removed. Marks were measured in order to triple-check accuracy. A dot of permanant marker was applied over washable dots. A friend opperated a small home drill press and I held the cymbal securely on the bed (board underneath) while he drilled from the underside with a small bit as a pilot hole (medium speed). A 3/16 inch bit was employed next. The holes came out perfectly! Ten split rivets were positioned in the holes. The sound is remarkable! With split rivets, they can be easily removed if the sizzle is too much. I would never do this to a valuable vintage cymbal but, in this case, the project turned out better than I anticipated. Love this cymbal! Brian

10 rivets in a 16" cymbal? Whoa! I've being putting rivets into cymbals for over 40 years, for myself, but mostly for others. I've done at least 75 by now, usually for professional and student jazz drummers. If a ride is thin and responsive, most folks seem to rarely want more than 2 or 3 so the tone of the cymbal isn't completely masked by the sustain. Ten seems like overkill IMHO. The template seems like a bit of overkill too, but each to their own.

I hope that the drilling was done at very low speed, that you kept the site of each hole well lubricated during drilling to keep it cool, and you supported the opposite side of the cymbal under each hole with a wood block to receive the drill bit once it passed through the cymbal. I'm not sure why you needed to use two different sized drill bits. If you use the right size, and its not dull, each hole should take between one and two minutes. High speed drilling is not good for the cymbal.

The purpose of rivets is to add sustain, not cover up defects. The general rule is that a crappy cymbal will make a crappy sizzle cymbal, and a great cymbal will make a great sizzle cymbal. All that a lot of rivets will do is to mask the cymbal's sound, but it will not improve that sound.

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 12 years ago
#4
Posts: 6170 Threads: 255
Loading...

lots of people say that if i cymbal sounds bad, then adding rivets is just gonna make it a bad sizzle cymbal. i dont really agree with that and sounds like you don't either. i'm sure it has happened to some people and i understand that.

i have only drilled one for rivets and its one of my best rides. it was a 60's avedis 22 that had an edge crack previously repaired. it sounded nice as is. but,i really love sizzle cymbals. i added 4 holes at the 10,12,2 and 6 oclock position. it totally changed in the cymbal in a positive way.

ive got a 50's avedis 20 that is real thin 1t about 1700 grams. it needs rivets badly in my opinion. i just don't have the heart to drill it though. i have used the add on stuff to it and it brings it to life somewhat.

mike

Posted on 12 years ago
#5
Loading...

I agree, Mike. A bad cymbal does not necessarily make a bad sizzle cymbal. Everything depends on the sound you are after. The beauty of split rivets is that they can be taken out if the sound is too washy. Conversely, they can be added if you are looking for a particular sound for a particular song. Yes, I agree with a previous responder in that often a few rivets are better in most cases. Personal preference however, is really what counts though.

Brian

Just a drummer who loves all things about vintage drums! Nothing more, nothing less.
Posted on 12 years ago
#6
Loading...

From salty 1322

A bad cymbal does not necessarily make a bad sizzle cymbal.

Actually it does. A crappy cymbal is a crappy cymbal no matter what you do to it. All that adding 10 rivets does is to make the crappiness a bit more tolerable by masking it with an overwhelming sustain. It will not make the cymbal sound better, just different.

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 12 years ago
#7
Loading...

With all respect, Mark, perhaps "different" may sometimes be construed as better.

Brian

Just a drummer who loves all things about vintage drums! Nothing more, nothing less.
Posted on 12 years ago
#8
Loading...

From salty 1322

With all respect, Mark, perhaps "different" may sometimes be construed as better. Brian

Cupping your ears might also make the cymbal sound better by altering the perceived tonality. Sometimes cymbals that sound terrible in live situations sound good when recorded. I have an old K that's been used in a studio multiple times to good effect but is harsh and metallic and very unpleasant when listened to live. Cupping and studio manipulation like sizzles don't make the cymbal sound better. What you hear when playing and what the audience hears are two very different things. As I said previously enough rivets may make a bad cymbal tolerable to your ears by masking the sound. It won't make it a good cymbal, ever! I've been playing for over 50 years. My son is a professional jazz drummer. Between the two of us we've owned almost 100 cymbals over the years. This has been not only our experience but the general experience of working drummers. Its not some theory I just made up.

Mark
BosLover
Posted on 12 years ago
#9
Loading...

I can see your point, Mark about what the audience hears and what the drummer hears being two different things. I'm sure you are right. I can also appreciate your experience and expertise. All I am saying is that I took an old cymbal and carefully drilled it to accomadate ten rivets. I never said that I intended to use the ten rivets constantly. Again, I agree with you that ten is quite a great amount. It does create quite a "washy" sound. I have also been playing for close to fifty years though, to be honest, I never made it my sole source of income. My only point is that if a musician likes the sound of any instrument and the listener also seems to appreciate it, then, that should be enough. I appreciate your input and I'm sure you are an excellent drummer.

Brian

Just a drummer who loves all things about vintage drums! Nothing more, nothing less.
Posted on 12 years ago
#10
  • Share
  • Report
Action Another action Something else here