Always worth another discussion...

I'm kinda in your boat, which made me think of something I've wanted to ask, pertaining to the bass drum...

In each instance, a 3ply and a 6ply, would a NON-coated head on the batter side deliver more punch or low end?

And how much has to do with the beater, itself? I've got the old felt ones, but is there something else that would deliver the goods?

The best results i get from a MIJ bass drum is by using a Pinstripe batter and a Amb RESO no holes or muffling.You will have to tweak a little but there is a sweet spot.

I once put an Aquarian Super Kick II on the batter which also came with a front resonant head with a pre-cut hole in it. This came in a combo pack for around 60 bucks or so at the time (8 to 10 years ago). I had this on an older Tama Rockstar set with a 22" bass drum and it sounded amazing! I had so many compliments by soundmen on my bass drum. With this set up, no internal mufffling was needed. If you are going for a purely vintage sound, then this will probably not meet your expectations. But, if you like a low end punch, it may be just what you are looking for.

-Justin

For the toms I always go back to coated single plys.... I took the rack tom off the rail mount and placed in a vintage flat based stand so it "floats" and is not clamped....sounds great. Floor tom I replace the rubber feet with the ones made by Gibraltar that have big air pockets... they help the sustain a bit. For the 20' kick drum I like a Super Kick 1 with no muffling and no hole in the reso side. Nice boom with projection. I tried the Super Kick 2 but it was a bit too dead for me. My 2 cents.

I think I actually may prefer the thud sound of an old vintage drum recording, which is probably what I'm going for at times, but then I also want to be able to get the most wood out of the shells...

I'm actually a fan of the Aquarian BD heads. I'm pretty sure the one that's on my Yamaha is a Super Kick but I don't know which one :rolleyes:

I have a Drum Dial... ever use one of them? I bought it about 6 years ago when I was convinced I couldn't tune a drum correctly and thought that doing it the scientific way would help me, but it proved to be more a pain in the ass than I expected.

I bought my first MIJ (Dixie) back in 1986. I was 15 and had some cash saved up -it was that or that blue and white yamaha moped.....I believe I made the better choice....changed my life! It is Pearl made kit with battleship style lugs dated around 70-72. I never was happy with the 12 tom and used anything from CS blackdots to pinstripes with duct tape and even foam weather-striping. Then I noticed alot of great sounding kits on TV were playing just plain old clear single ply heads. Then last April I bought a brand new Ddrum Dominion. I was very upset when I discovered all 3 toms were out of round. After numerous phone discussions with local drummers as well as founders and presidents of major manufacturers, I learned that there are more 'out-of-round' drums out there than perfect shells. There is a perameter (sp), a range of ovalness (if I may express it that way) that is considered 'within spec' and there are scores of great sounding vintage and new shells that are like that. There are other aspects of the cut of the edge that factor in moreso than roundness of the shell. I was referred to a veteran drum builder (here in Michigan) and I ended up taking all the wood shells I own to this guy (13 of them) and we spent 6 hours together and I dropped a couple hundred bucs....before you think I overpaid....read on:

After playing my Dixie for years and being frustrated with the sound (of the 12 and the BD......as recorded on 2 CDs) I was blown away by the results....sounded better than anything I had ever had. Those results were gained by all the drums that were worked on that day. How????? Read on:

Well, after the edges were recut by this master drum builder, I stripped down the drum to the shell only (some remove everything, some leave only the lugs on) and I knocked it with my palm to (as the DW fans would say) find the 'timbre pitch' of the shell. Every drum is going to have one. Find it, and mark it on the inside of the shell (designate it). Next using NEW single ply heads (Clear Remo Ambassadors) I tuned each head to that note and this achieved an amazing resonate sound - they just sing!!! After that, muffle to your liking. I use studio rings. These, with the combination of the warmth of the wood these MIJs are made of, create an wonderful EQed warm resonant tone that is to die for. I conducted some experiments with recording this 12 inch Dixie verses my brand new maple Dominion, and, while the tone was slightly different, they were remarkably close and the MIJ tom sounded just as good as the maple, and some would actually prefer it because of the added warmth. Attack and projection mean nothing when you are micing (mic placement) and can amplify (PA) or mix while recording. The guy from Morphine used to use a Dixie and I have now learned enough to make most anything sound good.

Moral of the story - EDGES, timbre pitching, and studio rings. Note, whenever you modify edges, you MUST use NEW heads.

As for the BD, I bought an MIJ off of CL locally and was blown away by how good the little 20 kick sounded (though to be fair, it was 16 inches deep). Ever since, I have been running all my kicks with this setup: Aq Superkick I (single ply) on the batter side and an Evans EQ3 or EQ4. Most head companies make this head - a resonant with a plastic ring on the outer edge (even the stock Ddrum head I got with my new Dominion). Last, lay a piece of carpet in there - deep enough not to spin around, not too big as to touch any heads, and about 18 inches wide - about spur to spur. If you desire more powerful impactful muffled punch, round off the batter side edge; conversely leave it sharp and use less muffling for a more resonant boomy sound.

OK, there is my lesson for the day. I guess I am now more of a contributing member than a novice reader! I could not have learned this without these guys on here......this site is the best!

DISCLAIMER: This lesson/advice is to be applied for the 6 or 9 ply shells. The 3 ply shells are best if you.....read jonnistix advice on that one (just sand for smoothness...do not recut as they are more designed for a rounded off edge).

Have fun and spend the money and time to get the most out of your drums......don't be cheap and lazy-only to be frustrated with your drum sound like I did for 25 years! (My Dixie is REBORN!)

One last thing......teach this stuff to the youngin's!!!! If I had been tought this when I was 16......

John in MI

(coming this summer, I will share pics and info about my 7 keeper kits (currently at the moment the count is 11 as I am also a flipper).

It takes a lot of knowledge and experience, but cheap Asian drums CAN be made to sound and look a lot better. Make sure all to do these little modifications outdoors and wear the correct safety gear. 1. Remove the heads and place the shell on its side. 2. Clean the bearing edges carefully and thoroughly with premium gasoline (the shell interior can be similarly treated if required. 3. Place a few sheets of paper inside the shell (this is only temporary). 4. Light a long cook's match, place carefully on the paper inside the shell and retire to a safe distance. 5. Presto! In only 30 minutes or so, your worthless, poorly made excuse for a genuine musical instrument now looks and sounds exactly as it should.

Now you can use all the time and energy you have freed up on something worthwhile, that will help you learn about music, tone and craftsmanship and grant you access to a community of knowledgeable musicians that have been liberated from constantly trying to polish a ****.

HA!

Roger, friend,

You just dissed someone's unique story who clearly had success with his kit! Really...gasoline tsk, tsk.

There are a few dedicated folks here who enjoy MIJ and play them to their delight and the joy of their audiences.

A gentleman here fixes MIJ kits up and provides nicely refurbished kits to disadvantaged children.

Whether the reasons for opting MIJ be financial constraint or the love of good sounding vintage mahogany shells and funky looking time-warped wraps, theses afficianados have found a source of good instrumentation, musically warm, finely resonant shells and a fun hobby.

I suggest a read of some of the posts by resident MIJ experts like jonnistix and some others for clarification and insight on this branch of unique and enjoyable drum history before torching their experience and insight.

Drop your Sonor Phonics or Premier Artist for a second and look around and listen to the community a little.

best,

-kellyj

Kellyj !

Well put. Thanks for finding the right words.

I was far to upset to write a polite reply to Roger myself.

/Johan M