No hostility here, (just to start out on the right foot) but you might recall an item that I'd posted a few days ago, requesting help in identifying some 'Crown' drums. Originally I'd commented on another thread, where someone had a kit with the same lugs, and it was identified as a 'Pearl" stencil. I was confused, as these lugs are different from both the 60s Pearl, and Star drums that I have. Decided to start my own thread(s) with pics of my Crown drums in question. [COLOR="red"]The early Star lugs are a bit different than those on the Fantasia kit. There was some refinement. The drums that are Pearl ave a longer, less pronounced drop at the tail end, where the Star drops a bit more dramatically.[/COLOR]http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=26592&highlight=Crown...and...http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=26615&highlight=Crown One detail in particular, specifically led me to believe that they were produced by Star rather than Pearl, and that was the fact that they have a 'round badge'. Yes, I'm aware that there are numerous names, and sizes, and shapes, and materials regarding these badges, but I'd seemed to recall in my research, that someone had made mention that; 'a round badge usually indicates Star'. Well I was doing a bit of research yesterday, and I ran across an old thread form this forum... Ah-ha! A couple of Crown drums, the bass drum, EXACTLY like mine, save for the wrap, and with the exact same, round, Crown badge.http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=13385[COLOR="Red"]Look guys, there are different colors here in this post. O'bops kit is called Golden Grain Pearl. Alan and drmachinegun are Tigers' Eye Pearl. Sorry, but look closely at the wraps and the cat page, it is obvious to me. Star Tigers Eye is a bit more silver/grey. while Pearl's looks like the root beer swirl. Not a big deal, but I have amazing color acuity, especially for a man.[/COLOR]Post from jonnistix:Okay, in reviewing the post, I did take note that there is no, "World's Supreme Quality" on the badge, just 'Japan" but you might be able to see where my confusion originated from***I have a lot of respect for jonnistix, and this is by no means intended as any sort of smear, but is meant, rather as a good example of how confusing, and enigmatic this whole MIJ identification exercise still remains. I consider jonnistix to be one of the top authorities on MIJ drums here on VDF, and has been extremely helpful with his knowledge, and tips etc. and not to try and single him out, but to illustrate that, even a highly regarded authority such as himself is not completely infallible in this regard. Did I hear you mention recently, that you are planning a definitive history of Star/early Tama? That'd be wicked. Personally, I'd like to see more research done on the whole Japanese stencil industry, or at least have what's already floating around out there compiled in a central location. Oh, I know this is no simple task - in reading Mikey777's Pearl history, (which was excellent) you can tell that there are many variables out there regarding manufacturers and distribution of these drums through the 60s, and it also seems not uncommon for a kit to come along that seems to breaks some of the established rules. Of course that is part of the fun though isn't it? Also, if there WERE a definitive reference source available, what would we be left to do here on VDF?... Oh yeah, there's still those 'Mercan kits and stuff. Though I have four, 60s Ludwig kits of my own, I really get a kick out of seeing, collecting, and restoring these old MIJ kits - and hey, why aren't there more of these posted in the galleries? Anyway, I do want to say: thank you jonnistix for all your help, and hard work, and knowledge...and confusion, (not so much). Keep up the outstanding work, and I look forward to seeing your work on the Star drum history. Bowing