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Buddy's 26" Ludwig?

Posts: 200 Threads: 68

I know there has been a thread or two about Buddy Rich's Ludwig kits from the late 70's - early 80's with Modular hardware, but after talking with a few fellow "Buddy freaks," I've heard that his last Ludwig kit had a 26" bass drum. Assuming he had just kept his 24" until the restored Radio Kings, I had never thought to really look but it does look a little bigger... Are my eyes playing tricks on me? Taking a look at the Drum Channel's "Buddy Rich : Up Close" footage from '82, his bass drum definitely looks like it could be a 26".

The main reason I ask, is I'm wondering if Buddy actually had a set with the 24" and the huge bulky triangular Modular mount on the bass and 13", or was it only until he got the last kit that he had the true Modular hardware installed? I'm assuming the last kit was the only Ludwig he had with a 26", but now I don't know what to think...

Here is a photo from Mike James' site, showing Buddy in Disneyland also from 1982, playing a kit with the true modular mounts, but I would swear that bass drum looks like a 24"... http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/media/br_images_contributed/br_gary_kindt/br_disneyland_82_02.jpg

Posted on 13 years ago
#1
Posts: 681 Threads: 81

I didn't realize that Buddy played a 26" in his later years. There is a Rogers x-pert on this site and I am sure he will chime in very shortly and will know the answer.

I have seen photos of Buddy behind a 24 that sure looked like a 26 due to his smaller stature.

Posted on 13 years ago
#2
Posts: 1311 Threads: 9

From Bharrington

I know there has been a thread or two about Buddy Rich's Ludwig kits from the late 70's - early 80's with Modular hardware, but after talking with a few fellow "Buddy freaks," I've heard that his last Ludwig kit had a 26" bass drum. Assuming he had just kept his 24" until the restored Radio Kings, I had never thought to really look but it does look a little bigger... Are my eyes playing tricks on me? Taking a look at the Drum Channel's "Buddy Rich : Up Close" footage from '82, his bass drum definitely looks like it could be a 26". The main reason I ask, is I'm wondering if Buddy actually had a set with the 24" and the huge bulky triangular Modular mount on the bass and 13", or was it only until he got the last kit that he had the true Modular hardware installed? I'm assuming the last kit was the only Ludwig he had with a 26", but now I don't know what to think... Here is a photo from Mike James' site, showing Buddy in Disneyland also from 1982, playing a kit with the true modular mounts, but I would swear that bass drum looks like a 24"... http://www.mikejamesjazz.com/media/br_images_contributed/br_gary_kindt/br_disneyland_82_02.jpg

Yeah..thats a 24 for sure.Just compare it in proportion to his 13' tom.Another anomily is Buddy appears to be playing Paiste cymbals on a few tunes.

Steve B

Posted on 13 years ago
#3
Posts: 2406 Threads: 55

Indeed. Buddy's Rogers bass drum isn't the one in question here actually!.. but that put forth.. Buddy played a 24" during his Rogers endorsement. I have never seen him with a 26" during this period although a 14X26 was available from Rogers if desired. Special order no doubt. So that said...

I tend to think that the bass drum on the DC "Buddy Rich Up Close" "may be" an illusion, although it is hard to tell. If that is in fact a 14X26, it had to be the only one as I have a TON of media on BR with a goodly amount from his last Ludwig endorsement.. ( 1977 to 1980 ) .. and he was playing a 14X24. However!... the DC feature is from 1982 and Buddy was playing Ludwig, but WITHOUT am endorsement! The deal with Ludwig was over and done in 1980.. ( it didn't end well either ) .. but Buddy had to play something, so he kept his Ludwig's. Interestingly, the Ludwig logo is missing from his bass drum in a lot of the pics I have from 1981 to 1982... and in other pics, it's in place! Regardless, he was playing Ludwig with NO ENDORSEMENT during this period.

The Mike James pic from 1982 with BR at Disneyland is a 24"... not a 26". That is correct!

Tommyp

Posted on 13 years ago
#4
Posts: 200 Threads: 68

Thanks guys!

I thought this would get TommyP's attention... I believe the 24" would've been a 16"x24" though, right? (Tommy how've you been?? Send me an email)

After comparing a clip from the Holland '78 Jazz Fest (watch at the start) - [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2t4-R4bL0c&playnext=1&list=PLE360CABFF1C3247C[/ame]

And the '82 Up Close Footage (best shot to see the BD is about 1:10 on) -

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6USNRCMV2Pc[/ame]

I think I'm definitely seeing a difference.

Posted on 13 years ago
#5
Posts: 2406 Threads: 55

BHarrington!...

How have I been?... jammed busy!... and no complaints there either! I just finished 8 nights in the last week and a half... super busy year... which is amazing to me as the economy still blows. Go figure. Anyway!...

Yes, you are correct sir! It would indeed be 16X24, not 14X24... course that's my 1965 Rogers BR Celebrity's talkin' there, as back then the bass drums were 14", not 16". For me personally, my area of research on Buddy is from 1949 to 79/80, and during this period he was playing 24's. Regarding the bass drum on the DC "Up Close" feature:

I guess the point I was trying to make there is that at this particular time, Buddy was no longer WITH Ludwig, so to speak, as they had parted ways in 1980, and for the last time too. That said, the bass drum DOES look larger than a 24"... so could it have been a 26"? Again, Buddy had no deal with Ludwig during this period, so could this drum be a "rogue"? I have an "insider" that was at Ludwig throughout the best years of that company, including during Buddy's last endorsement. Let me see if I can garner some info from him on this... you never know! I will also mention this though:

There is a well known print/pic of Buddy on his mid 60's Rogers Buddy Rich Celebrity's where his bass drum LOOKS huge!... like a 26"... but it's a 14X24. Again, an illusion in the optical plane based on angle, light, etc. It's hard to say on the Ludwig, but it "can be" deceiving. I'll attach a pic of my '65 Rogers BR Celebrity's... the bass drum is a 14X24... but doesn't it "look" larger? Still... let me get in touch with my mole from Ludwig. Maybe I can find out for sure!

Tommyp

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Posted on 13 years ago
#6
Posts: 2406 Threads: 55

An addendum to our discussion...

Did a Jazz Fest last Thursday and just received some nice pics that were taken during our performance. Normally, I wouldn't post anything with me in it.. ( as I am hideous! ) .. ahem... but the drums are nice! ( only one floor tom for this particular gig though ) That said,

We have been talking about a 24" vs. 26" bass drum and DID Buddy possibly play a 16X26 during the DC "Up Close" performance. I attached a pic of my '65 Rogers BR Celebrity's with a 14X24 bass drum that LOOKS like it could be bigger based on the angle the picture was taken. Interestingly,

Look at this picture taken on Thursday... same drum... yet it "looks" almost like a 14X22. I'll attach both of these together so you can get some perspective. So... all this said,

I'm waiting to hear back from my Ludwig contact as to if he knows anything about BR's bass drum in 1982. Again, for the record, Buddy was playing Ludwig drums in 1982, but with no endorsement deal as he and Ludwig had parted ways back in 1980. Anyway...

Angles can be a bit deceiving! Hopefully you will enjoy!

Tommyp

Posted on 13 years ago
#7
Posts: 241 Threads: 26

there's a drum channel?

Posted on 13 years ago
#8
Posts: 2406 Threads: 55

johnnyz!...

Here ya go! http://www.drumchannel.com/

Tommyp

Posted on 13 years ago
#9
Posts: 200 Threads: 68

Nice Tommy - It's true... the angles can do a number on the drum. In the videos I posted, I'm mainly going by the 13" tom to bass drum relationship.

Buddy too just looks smaller behind the DC Up Close kit. I've heard that he used this kit on the Concert for the America's with Frank Sinatra, and I've definitely seen it on a Parkinson performance.

Interesting thing I noticed about those two '82 pictures from Disneyland - there are TWO different kits, judging by the tom mount. One is the sort of "pre-modular" mix Buddy had for a while on his Ludwig kit, and the other is the link I posted with the true modular hardware. Perhaps this was a time Buddy gave away a kit and received a new one the next day? Not really sure how long his stay would've been at Disneyland though, I was thinking a week?

Posted on 13 years ago
#10
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