Yeah,it was............LOL

You said you have never heard a set of B8's that you liked...........

Well, I would strongly consider that set of hats the blairndrums has, if i where you... :)

[COLOR="Purple"]I wouldn't let these comments dissuade your search or make you change course dramatically. It is perfectly reasonable to get a newer set of B8 alloy cymbals....they would be completely appropriate for Rock/Blues.

Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

[COLOR="Red"]It's just that ZBT's s#ck.

They may be one of the worst lines ever made.[/COLOR]

There are arguments for buying vintage....and arguments for buying new. If you want new (or newer)...go for it.

Go to a music store and try some B8 alloy and some B20 alloy cymbals. Ignore the pricetags, just try the cymbals.

You will see the difference.

For good-priced B8's.....ZHT's are better (oops those are B12's actually)...so are Paiste PST-5's. Much better.

Some other decent B8 lines were Zildjian Amirs (NOT Amir II's). Paiste 505's, 2000's, 2002's, 3000's, Dimensions, or 802's...Meinl Amun... none of which exist any longer so must be purchased used.[/COLOR]

As I indicated, some people do like B8 alloy cymbals, but its far from acceptable to me. The ZBTs were pretty bad, and the ZBT Plus' weren't much better. The black Zildjian B8s (I forgot the series name) sounded like manhole covers. They were truly dreadful and were, happily, quickly discontinued. A friend puchased a Sabian B8 cymbal pack for his son around 8 or 9 years ago, and although they sounded much better than the ZBTs, they had no life or sparkle. Dead. They also looked much more like cast cymbals than the ZBTs.

[COLOR="Green"]The problem is...people associate B8's with budget cymbals....like the ZBT's and such.

But a well-made B8 is a nice cymbal. I find it funny that Zildjian's early B8's, the first-run Amirs....were pretty good cymbals. Yet they devolved ever-downward.

So, I agree...these low-budget ones (although, again....retail new prices on these are anything but CHEAP) are truly a waste of labor and material...they really are.

But plenty of companies made good B8's, is all. If you have ever played a set of Meinl Amuns (they are discontinued, I believe), you could see what a sweet, professional cymbal the B8 alloy can produce.

I just don't want folks thinking B8 is synonymous with 'beginner', 'cheap', or 'bad'.[/COLOR]

Unfortunately, that is true, because 95% of the time B8 is used in beginner or cheap cymbals. Its use in good cymals is very limited, and it seems that some of the well made B8 lines have been discontinued. As a result I think out of prudence it makes sense not to recommend B8 cymbals to anyone. There are plenty of used cast cumbals around that are probably more cost effective than B8's. If you want to go cheap there are some decent Wuhan Turkish style cymbals that use B20 alloy. Some are not bad sounding, and in any case are better than most B8 cymbals

the only ZBT I've ever liked is the only one I own, a 12" splash. The Sheet construction helps with a fast decay.

For what you would spend on ebay for a ZBT "anything", you can prowl craigslist and pawn shops and get a nice cast cymbal instead.

If you're just starting out however and have a tight budget, any cymbals are better then none and you can always sell them later and get some of your money back.

Remember gang, we all started somewhere and not all of us had the pockets to pull from we do now.

Personally love my 60's Zildjian 14" Hats, as a previous poster said, $125 is about the norm.

I agree with you. Unfortunately many buy ZBT's or the like, and without understanding the formulations and workmanship, think that because of the Zildjian or Sabian stamp they're getting the real deal. Before you know it they have upgraditis and when they finally get cymbals thay can live with, it's cost them more than if thay did it right in the first place.

dead on Mark!

I made the mistake back when I started playing as a kid.

OOooo Sabian's good, I'll take that B8 Pro ride!

HATED it, worst cymbal ever.

Granted, I did not know what I wanted, I was a young kid with money to spend and a need for a ride cymbal....live and learn. I now love my 70's Zildjian Heavy ride I found..well we found eachother.

The thing is the Sabian B8 cymbals look much more like they're cast than sheet. They look like the real thing when compared to the ZBTs. That is until you listen to them!