I like the second one. As far as "should you just buy a Bettis"...the different stuff he has listed is some nice metal. I would gladly buy any one of his or the others' works. I doubt I would consider any of those as "settling until I find the one" because those are all special, one of a kind pies. Listen through them on a plugged in set of speakers and see which seems to fit your current set up and I would bet you will find yourself investing in more of those handcrafted works of art and foregoing, for the time being, your hunt as I firmly believe you will become a convert very quickly. Good luck with the hunt!

I think the issue here is that you're asking us to help pick out an old K that YOU will be happiest with. No one can do that but you. All we can do is give you an opinion based on our own biases and expectations, not yours. In addition, any opinion based on a sound file has limited value. You dont know how the file was recorded, or with what sticks, or in what kind of space, etc. Any given cymbal can sound differently depending on a lot of these factors, including the skill and style of the player.

One of my old K's sounds metallic and a bit clangy in person, but records really well. My to-die-for Old K is actually a newer new stamp that really does it for me. It records as well as it sounds in person. While everone who has heard it thinks its really great, I'm sure some here might not agree.

I do, too. That's the one I would choose between the two.

You're right -- I never should have implied that I would be settling. That was actually pretty disrespectful, now that I read it back. I certainly didn't mean it to be. These guys are obviously doing amazing and probably hugely under-appreciated work.

I don't disagree at all. And that's all I'm asking for. I may end up with my "dream ride" which you all *hate*. I could live with that. That said, I haven't had the good fortune to play lots and lots of old Ks. No one's ever turned me loose in a room full of them and said "have at it." So, I'm no expert on the full range of what's out there -- so my expectations, as you say, are somewhat uninformed.

I guess I don't see anything illegitimate about soliciting opinions from people who know the lay of the land better than I do. I'm not going to pull out my credit card just because someone here or elsewhere says I should. But, you can sometimes get a pretty clear consensus as you suggest later in your post, right? Remember that the first mp3 file that I posted was unanimously disliked. I went back to it thinking, "what I am getting or not getting?" More listening, more research -- based on your good guidance -- and I was suddenly further along on the learning curve. That I can appreciate...

I didn't dislike the sound file, it just didn't excite me. In person I might have liked it a lot more. In the end, you may shell out big bucks for a cymbal you're not happy with. Its a horserace.

I've got 4 20's K's for sale, ranging in price from $1295 to $2650. There are big differences in price based on age and weight - a thin Old Stamp will sell for twice the price of a heavier New Stamp.

2 of the 20" K's I currently have are listed on the website, and I will be listing a medium New Stamp later today for $1295. K's sell quick, and there are always a few coming and going. Prices are negotiable. http://www.classicvintagedrums.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=68_78

I also keep all of my old videos up at Youtube, in case you want to check some out to get an idea of which stamp era and weight range you prefer: http://www.youtube.com/user/ClassicVintageDrums#p/u

Thanks,

Bill

I have a 20" end of the Old Stamp era for sale. It's in very nice shape--you call still make out the ink stamp. It weighs in at 2074g.

Coincidently I just gave it to my brother today so he can make a good recording of it since he was our producer when we had the group.

It will probably turn up on Ebay in January or February 2011.

If interested just send me your contact details via PM and I'll get in touch.

Good luck with your search in any event.

Bill, thanks. Your website has been extremely helpful to me in figuring out exactly what sound I'm looking for. It's become kind of a reference for me. (It also doesn't hurt that your playing is very tasty! If that's you...) Although I can't go anywhere near the >$2500 price point, $1295 is more realistic. Unfortunately, medium weight new stamp is probably not exactly what I'm looking for. I've been surprised, though, so I'll keep a look out for your listing.

Failing that, I think I actually have found a ride cymbal that really does it for me. (It's not an old K, though -- it's a 20" Spizzichino that sounds much better to me than any old K that I've found for sale and that I can afford.) I did what two people suggested earlier. One, I opened up my search to some other makers. And two, I ran my computer's sound through my stereo and just went through every sound sample I could find. Hundreds! I was up until 4:00 a.m. both Fri. and Sat. nights(!) I compared every old K I could find to that Spizzichino, and the latter "won" almost every time. (When it didn't, the winner was $2500-$3500.) So, I obviously think I'm on to something. I'll hear it in person later this week.

I appreciate everyone's suggestions. Thanks much!

You know ... I have traveled this road many many times through the years. I finally came to the conclusion that putting any constraints on the variable causes more headaches than it's worth. I have a deep and varied selection of cymbals. My absolute favorite rides (greater than 19 inches) are not vintage cymbals at all. It's the Paiste Twenty 20 inch Light Ride and the Meinl Byzance 20 inch Jazz Thin Ride. These are everything I've ever wanted or needed in a ride cymbal. They are dark when I need my ride to be. They've got a nice ping when needed. They have the most amazing crashes of any ride I've ever played. I've gone through the old K's, new K's, A's, HH's, etc etc etc. For MY ears, these do the trick. I've still got other rides to use when the mood strikes, but these do it for me. The Paiste is ever so slightly heavier than the Meinl ... which makes for a wonderful pairing. It's really all in what you hear. I hear these. My Sabian HH Prototype is my favorite 18 inch jazz ride. Again, still not vintage, but perfect for my ears. I've been meaning to post some vids on my YouTube site comparing rides. Might get around to that one day.

What Boslover and Mjnic said.

You will never make a satisfactory decision on a $1000+ cymbal utilizing sound files. NEVER.

Take my word for it. The best method to find the cymbal you want to keep is to allocate a good chunk of change to find it. Buy them, shop price and era of cymbals, you can still find good deals out there, which is how the guys that sell them found them. Just have that money ready to press the button (make sure it isn't a thief!) and then let the process begin:

You buy the cymbal that looks like (and sounds like via sound file) what you want. Try it out, keep it for long enough to get used to its sound and how your playing reacts to its sound. Then, if it is what you though it was, you're done. If it isn't what you were hoping for, put it up for sale and maybe you'll even make a small profit, or you might lose a small amount, depending on the market. Take the money you made and buy another 'un.. Repeat the last steps until you do arrive at your dream cymbal. Good luck.

One nice side-benefit to this method is that you become more adept with every purchase at identifying what a cymbal sounds like based on its looks, weight, and other aspects. You can get better at listening to the sound files too. So in theory, you should get closer to your ideal cymbal as you move along the process. Or, you may find that you never really wanted a K.. it was a different cymbal you really had in mind.. like a 50s A. zildjian or a Spizz or a 70s 602 or a Sound Creation Dark ride or a new Bos cymbal or a Meinl Byzance or whatever.. I've really been surprised at what cymbals I've enjoyed playing.

Another reason soundfiles are very limited is the main one: you can't hear the cymbal in a band situation, with other instruments. I've heard cymbals that sound like crap alone come alive when other musicians were in the room.

One of the best posts ever on this subject. This whole soundfile thing has gotten way out of hand. A cymbal seems much more a personal thing than even drums themselves.

To reiterate your point, I remember when my brother and I used to buy/sell vintage guitars. You'd try out say a Fender Jaguar and it sounded good enough. Take it on stage and you immediately learned what a pretty much useless (gigging) guitar it was.

There really are only two sensible approaches with cymbals. Buy a lot of them till you get the ones you want and sell the others even if it means taking some loss.

Or try them in shops if you are lucky enough to have good selections available. Even here you won't know how they jibe with your kit and your music and your band till you road test them.