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Old 07-01-2012, 05:49 PM
lossfizzle lossfizzle is offline
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Default Past owner abuses: how to remove ELMER'S glue (and fix the damage done)

Howdy, y'all. I just brought home these Rogers XP-8s for $50-- a full set of shells (22x14, 16x16 and *two* 13x9s) plus original stands (stands and one 13x9 not shown).




They are in sad shape aesthetically, but it does appear to be a matched kit, the hardware's all there, and for $50 I'm not gonna complain. I've always been a budget drummer and have been looking for a garage-sale bargain on a set of decent maple shells in rock sizes for, like, forever.

The worst part of restoring these so far: PO (or PPO) has ever-so-brilliantly glued a ton of egg-crate stuff to the inside of both rack toms as a permanent against-the-head damping method. The glue that was used appears to be either Elmer's school-grade stuff or wood glue. I can't be certain. It's old, yellow, currently very stiff, and slightly bubbly. That's all I know.

On one of the toms, I've ripped out the egg-crate by hand and gone over it for about an hour with a putty knife, trying to pick the glue off. (Below: Left = "before," right = "after".)



It's on there *thick*, but what's left there now after the initial round of careful putty-knifery and crack-offery is on there thin enough that I'm worried that I'm going to end up heavily gouging the shell with the knife if I go any "deeper."

Is there a better way to get rid of the rest of this awful stuff? I'm kind of afraid to go at it with acetone, and I'm DEFINITELY afraid to go at it with a warm rag as Elmer's suggests.

Also, the glue seems to be removing an internal layer of varnish or other sealant (so far, I've not seen any *wood* come up, thankfully). You can clearly see where the glue's been in this photo, since the egg crate was only glued in on one side.



Assuming that I shouldn't leave this as is, would be there be any harm in just re-spraying the inside of the shell with something quick, or should I sand the shell's innards down first before respraying? What's the easiest / fastest / safest stuff I might use to respray, in either event?

Thanks!
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Old 07-01-2012, 05:55 PM
The Ploughman The Ploughman is offline
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Default Re: Past owner abuses: how to remove ELMER'S glue (and fix the damage done)

Are serial numbers still present on the drums?

Later issue XP8 drums had carnuba wax on bare wood. Earlier shells were sprayed with a lacquer. If lacquered, then careful damp cleaning wont hurt. If carnuba, then, careful sanding and then a rewax wont hurt.

See my XP8 restoration thread I posted this week.
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Rogers Drums Big R era 1975-1984 Dating Guide.
http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=24048
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:03 PM
lossfizzle lossfizzle is offline
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Default Re: Past owner abuses: how to remove ELMER'S glue (and fix the damage done)

Hi Ploughman! Thanks, I'll check out the thread you have going.

You can probably tell that these have been the victim of a spray-paint or brush-on hit-and-run. We took acetone to two of the badges earlier this week trying to uncover a serial number beneath the paint. We uncovered intact Big R badges, but no serials. I have not yet seen serials stamped inside the shells either, so-- as an XP-8-knowledgeable person-- if you have any third guesses as to where I should look, I'd appreciate that info.

Another mystery is that while the set appears to match-- beneath the spraypaint I can see a consistent coloring on all four shells, closest to what appears to be California Red in the late 70s / early 80s Rogers catalogs I've pulled up-- I can't really tell if they were lacquered. I am 99% certain the kick drum was factory-lacquered, and the rack toms both appear to be so as well. The floor tom appears to have a thin wrap on it with a similar if not quite identical color. It might just be lacquer that is flaking off with remarkably plastic-like consistency from the bearing edge.

I am no woodworker nor finishing / drum-wrappin' expert, as I imagine is painfully apparent from the above. Is there something I should look for to determine lacquer vs. wax, if a serial-number based dating process is not an option?
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:07 PM
The Ploughman The Ploughman is offline
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Default Re: Past owner abuses: how to remove ELMER'S glue (and fix the damage done)

If you have NO SERIAL number USA badges, the drums were made in aprox. 1980/81. California wine is a lacquer finish. It is possible your drums were lacquered inside as well. Remove the old paint, get a stain match and redo them with new lacquer. Sand and have the interior shot at the same time. A fairly rare finish.

In the Big R dating guide (link below) there are examples of the various badges used during the Big R period.
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Rogers Drums Big R era 1975-1984 Dating Guide.
http://www.vintagedrumforum.com/showthread.php?t=24048
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:11 PM
lossfizzle lossfizzle is offline
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Default Re: Past owner abuses: how to remove ELMER'S glue (and fix the damage done)

Heh, I just read your Big R guide in your sig and determined the same. They look exactly like your "no serial" badges and are positioned 180 degrees from the mount.

If I am DIYing this, then what should I use to lacquer the inside of the drums once I've sanded them down? Or would I be safe with a method similar to Rogers' later method, sanding down and replacing with carnuba? I'm going with a wrap for the outside when I get there, as I'm not necessarily going for 100% originality.

Thanks again for your awesome (and awesomely fast) input.

Last edited by lossfizzle; 07-01-2012 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 07-01-2012, 06:29 PM
lossfizzle lossfizzle is offline
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Default Re: Past owner abuses: how to remove ELMER'S glue (and fix the damage done)

Ploughman, your silver sparkle kit looks amazing! Great find! One of my XP-8 wood hoops was broken, so I ordered a new pair today. If you have any interest in the other hoop-- which is reasonably intact but has also been a paint victim and will require sanding down-- PM me.
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Old 07-01-2012, 07:16 PM
vibes vibes is offline
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Default Re: Past owner abuses: how to remove ELMER'S glue (and fix the damage done)

That is a nice find! Those drums can be brought back to look beautiful. I am trying to remember that paint/Graffitti remover Purdie Shuffle used on his Mardi Gras kit. You may have a nice finish under that paint. Remove all the hardware and Try some Xylene on the inside of those shells. It should melt that foam/egg crate off and the glue. If it is wood glue you can lightly sand that off. Amazeing what people do to nice drums.
I would not stain the inside. The wood looks good.
Keep posting your progress. Looks like a nice project.
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Old 07-01-2012, 08:59 PM
lossfizzle lossfizzle is offline
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Default Re: Past owner abuses: how to remove ELMER'S glue (and fix the damage done)

Thanks Vibes! I will try some of those out, probably going to start with the sanding method since I have to sand the outside of all the shells anyway. I may start a second thread on these once I get a little further with them. There's a lot of dumb gruntwork to do associated with the paint, not just cleaning up the shells but also much of the lugs and even the hoops... sigh.
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:19 AM
Jon Petersen Jon Petersen is offline
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Default Re: Past owner abuses: how to remove ELMER'S glue (and fix the damage done)

I have never had problems with the shells integrity by using Acetone or Xylene to remove lacquer or glue on the inside.

IF you remove the Elmers (and the wax or the lacquer in the process) I wouldn´t lacquer the insides, rather just give them some or and maybe wax.

I my opinion, lacquer makes a too hard, punchy surface - and sound.


Enjoy the work - end the result. They are going to be worth it!


Jon
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Old 07-04-2012, 11:21 AM
lossfizzle lossfizzle is offline
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Default Re: Past owner abuses: how to remove ELMER'S glue (and fix the damage done)

Hey Jon, thanks very much for the encouraging words. I'm also hoping this will all be worth it; this is my first all-maple set of drums (and I've been playing for 25 years!).

Tried acetone on the glue yesterday. It really doesn't do much to remove it. Same deal with lacquer thinner. I guess there's nothing for it but to sand and/or pick it off. We're having better luck getting all the horrid paint off the lugs with chemicals, but that's gonna take some time and I'm hoping I don't end up brain-damaged from fumes in the process.

I've been reading some folks making similar comments about lacquer on the inside of drum shells. Not sure which approach I'm going to take yet, since I don't currently intend to remove the lacquer lining the glue-spared floor tom and kick.

I think I'm gonna start a separate thread for this project. I have no idea what I'm doing, really, and I have lots of dumb little questions. But I'm very excited to get this kit back into action.
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