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  #1  
Old 10-06-2017, 11:55 AM
markrocks68 markrocks68 is offline
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Default Re-wrap or real? Ludwig experts please weigh in

Coming here to ask all the experts on this.
I recently just picked up an Oyster Black Pearl Pioneer from 1967.
Going through all the standard check points for originality I have posted the scarf joint pics. I definitely see the wrap going into the ply but this finish looks almost brand new. Everything checks out though. All the washers, hardware frozen in time with oxidation, minimal pitting, no extra holes anywhere, edges look like every other old Ludwig Pioneer I have & time is showing on them. Resocoat interior paint is chipping in some spots. Date smudged. Grommet appears untouched & oxidized.
My question: Is this the real deal? I believe it is but would like to know what you guys & gals think.
Thanks
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  #2  
Old 10-06-2017, 12:01 PM
wflkurt wflkurt is offline
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Default Re: Re-wrap or real? Ludwig experts please weigh in

It certainly looks real to me. It's getting harder to tell these days. The badge looks a tad low to me but that might be where Ludwig put it that day. The grommet hole is usually centered with a keystone badge.
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  #3  
Old 10-06-2017, 12:10 PM
markrocks68 markrocks68 is offline
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Default Re: Re-wrap or real? Ludwig experts please weigh in

Quote:
Originally Posted by wflkurt View Post
It certainly looks real to me. It's getting harder to tell these days. The badge looks a tad low to me but that might be where Ludwig put it that day. The grommet hole is usually centered with a keystone badge.
It all looks like it's never been touched. The grommet is sort of blue/greenish now. And you are right Kurt, it is harder to tell these days hence this post. Thanks for weighing in.
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  #4  
Old 10-06-2017, 12:33 PM
CTMichaelV CTMichaelV is offline
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Default Re: Re-wrap or real? Ludwig experts please weigh in

Hey Mark
It looks good to me, tough to re-wrap and get the new wrap into the scarf joint without messing up the interior paint and it would be so much work that I don't see anyone doing it. I agree with Kurt, I have seen badge locations "float" a good 1/2" depending on the given day of the week or who was at the drill gun on any given day. The grommet looks original and the color looks right on to me. I am sure our other Ludwig Gurus like Mike Layton will chime in.
Good luck with it, and if your looking to part ways with it, keep me in mind !
Michael
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Old 10-06-2017, 05:06 PM
DrumBob DrumBob is online now
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Default Re: Re-wrap or real? Ludwig experts please weigh in

Looks like the real deal.
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  #6  
Old 10-06-2017, 09:15 PM
mlayton mlayton is offline
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Default Re: Re-wrap or real? Ludwig experts please weigh in

I agree that just looking at the wrap alone made me scratch my head a bit. But you guys have covered all the bases from what I can see. It looks legit to me as well. Must have been kept out of the sun and extreme temps. Nice find Mark!
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  #7  
Old 10-07-2017, 12:40 AM
K.O. K.O. is offline
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Default Re: Re-wrap or real? Ludwig experts please weigh in

Looks real to me. No one has ever quite accurately duplicated that wrap. People do harvest original wrap off old bass drums so it is possible to get a piece. And I have heard tell of people opening up the scarf joint to put the wrap inside (Sounds pretty difficult and risky but I assume it could be done if the potential payout made it worthwhile)...however, looking at it a different way, someone would have to be pretty stupid to go to all that effort and then build out a Pioneer. Not to slight the Pioneer but an OBP Pioneer is worth half to a quarter of what an OBP Jazz Festival is. Consider the context. If you had a suitable piece of authentic vintage wrap plus the knowledge and ability to fake such a drum you'd build one just like Ringo's (5.5" deep, badge next to the throw, etc.) and have a drum you could sell for multiple thousands more.

and as far as it just being a "run of the mill" rewrap in a batch of new OBP wrap...nope. They just don't look like that (I have one I did myself...and one Ludwig did a few years ago, and an original 60's Pioneer...and an original 60's Jazz Fest).

Rest assured...It's real and it's spectacular.
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  #8  
Old 10-07-2017, 02:54 AM
Purdie Shuffle Purdie Shuffle is offline
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Default Re: Re-wrap or real? Ludwig experts please weigh in

The second you see the wrap going into the scarf joint you know you're looking at the real deal. There's only one way to do that and it's when the original shell layup happens. That sucker looks out-of-the-box new! Great little score amigo. You always buy well...

John
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  #9  
Old 10-08-2017, 10:20 AM
markrocks68 markrocks68 is offline
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Default Re: Re-wrap or real? Ludwig experts please weigh in

Thanks everyone for chiming in. I appreciate it! I played this drum Friday night and it sounded FAT with a good ol reliable Pioneer crack! Hence why I did not bring to the Hollywood Drum Show yesterday. It's a keeper.
The original reso head still on there & new coated Ambassador on top. The case & 60s stand were included too. I'm pretty stoked. Now I need to find a OBP Club Date kit
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2017, 01:41 PM
BEC BEC is offline
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Default Re: Re-wrap or real? Ludwig experts please weigh in

This is the first 60's snare I can recall where the wrap doesn't go all the way to the top of the shell? Or is it just the photos that are "fooling" me?
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