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Old 01-28-2017, 06:41 PM
f15c f15c is offline
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Default Late 1970's Zildjian 20" Crash?

Hello,

I'm looking for help identifying a cymbal I just bought today. Dude on Craigslist advertised this as a 21" Ride. It has a Zildjian "thin" stamp on it (and no dots in the ottoman part), no other logos/markings on the top, couldn't see a logo on the bottom (I was looking for the hollow logo), and it felt a little lighter than I expected....but it looked to be in good shape, so I bought it for $70.

I got it home and measured it--it's not a 21", it's a 20" (20 1/8in to be exact). Under the right lighting conditions I can make out the faint hollow logo on the bottom side...so that combined with the thin "no three dot" stamp should make this a late 70's/early 80's cymbal. Am I right so far?

Then I weighed it...1986g! My research so far indicates this isn't heavy enough to even be a thin ride from that timeframe.... so I guess I want to know is this a 20" crash or a 20" crash/ride? It's pretty thin on the edges, and it has a fairly large bell in my opinion. See pics:

Regardless of the technically correct answer, I'm going to give this thing a run as my ride. I'm just curious as to what it actually is.

Thanks for your time!

Chris
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Old 01-28-2017, 07:01 PM
f15c f15c is offline
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Default Re: Late 1970's Zildjian 20" Crash?

Sorry, I meant to say "light ride", not "thin" ride.

Here is a link to the pics: //1970szildjian20incymbal.shutterfly.com if the other link doesn't work.

And I meant to add that the Zildjian stamp is not as close to the edge of the cymbal as I'm used to seeing...it's a little over 2.5in from the edge of the cymbal to the top of the stamp. And you can also see the stamping is kind of light and uneven. Dots on the U.S.A. part too.

Thank you!
Chris
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Old 01-28-2017, 09:11 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: Late 1970's Zildjian 20" Crash?

f15c

Yes the trademark stamp is the 1970s "thin" stamp. Light and uneven stamping isn't unusual. That distance in from the edge of the cymbal isn't unusual.

The traditional years for the hollow ink Zildjian on the bottom are 1977-1980, but I've now had a few reports from reliable sources that the logo appears on cymbals they obtained new in 1976. So it might be a little earlier. Fortunately I remind people to add 2 to all the years on my site, so its all good.

Yes that's a lighter 20" cymbal for the 1970s, but it isn't outside the expected range. Although people talk about cymbals getting heavier over the decades that's only half the story. In the 1970s there were still quite light cymbals being made. Zildjian also added heavier cymbals to the range they made. I've got a year more of data to work through now, but you can see the variation across the eras:



in the legend L = mid 50s Large Stamp, S = late 50s Small Stamp, T= Trans Stamp (early 50s and back into the 1940s).

from: http://black.net.nz/avedis/avedis-prices.html#20

The bell looks to me like it might be 5 1/2" in diameter. You can measure it (on the bottom of the cymbal is usually easier) and see. The bell diameters during that period were 5" for rides and 5.5" for crash rides and crashes. At least that's what I've been able to reconstruct so far. If you scroll down on this link

http://black.net.nz/avedis/avedis-gallery.html#ink

there is a link to a Zildjian White Paper which discusses the larger bells on crashes and crash rides.

Hope this helps.
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For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here
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Old 01-29-2017, 11:50 AM
f15c f15c is offline
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Default Re: Late 1970's Zildjian 20" Crash?

Hello, thank you so much for the reply and information. I ran across your website as I was initially trying to figure out what I had--I appreciate all your work!

My cymbal has a 5 1/2 in bell...and also appears to be a "flat top" bell if that is of any consequence...doesn't sound like that is particularly useful info since we already know this is a 70's cymbal from stamp and the hollow ink logo.

With that said and with a weight of 1986g, sounds like everything points to this being a Crash/Ride or a Crash...not a Ride. Most "similar" 20in Crashes I've found online seem to be around 100g lower, like this one: https://reverb.com/item/1983493-glor...ms-very-goodcd

...so maybe mine will fall into the Crash/Ride category if I can ever answer that.

Regardless, it's going on the kit tonight on the ride stand, looking forward to it!

Thanks again for the response. Great info. Hopefully you can add mine to your statistical research! Crazy how much detective work it takes to figure this stuff out, but very cool!

Chris
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Old 01-29-2017, 05:46 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: Late 1970's Zildjian 20" Crash?

Thanks for your thanks, and yes I'll add what you have into the mix. I recognized the look of the bell because I've got one as well. And yes they are a bit flat on top. From my bell gallery:



from: http://black.net.nz/avedis/bells.html

This is a page which isn't fully linked into the rest of the site yet, and needs a rework since we've now decided to go for three categories: fine, medium, and coarse lathing not just the two categories I started with.

The flattish top on the 5.5" bell is a little different from the flat top on the mid 50s Large Stamps. I have yet to finish exploring all of the bell shape stuff. As you say, it does take a lot of detective work. I just keep accumulating and writing things up as new information comes to hand.
__________________
For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here
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