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  #1  
Old 10-09-2014, 08:38 AM
John Byzance John Byzance is offline
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Default Vintage Sabian Cymbals

Hi!

It's my first post here on the forums, though I have been reading here for some time now.

On this first post I wanted to ask you about Sabian. I own some vintage Sabian cymbals that I can't identify. Some of them are Sabian III's, which are from what I have read quite rare 80's cymbals manufactured in Italy (am I right?).

I'll post some pictures later or tomorrow. Thank you in advance for your help! =)


John
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  #2  
Old 10-09-2014, 11:35 PM
Drummerjohn333 Drummerjohn333 is offline
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Default Re: Vintage Sabian Cymbals

Robert Zildjian bought the Tosco factory and I understand that some Sabians (namely the large inked "B20" models) were made there. Not sure if any Tosco styled cymbals were ever stamped as Sabian. This same factory made CB700s in the 70s - Great 'stencil' cymbals (jury still out on the metal composition of the CB700s).

Others will be able to fill more details.
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Old 10-10-2014, 01:03 AM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: Vintage Sabian Cymbals

Alas it isn't all that clear about those Sabian III cymbals I'm afraid.

Tosco started in 1974. Robert Zildjian was involved from the beginning. The Luca Luciano book mentions that when Robert first became involved (pre split) he was considering Tosco as a manufacturer of second line cymbals for Zildjian. The situation changed after Robert split from Zildjian. Royalties of the name Tosco were sold to Robert who kept producing Tosco cymbals from 1982 to 1985 under the name Sabian B20 or Tosco by Sabian.

I suspect part of the change was that Robert was looking for a way to keep selling cymbals into the USA during the time when he wasn't allowed to sell Canadian produced ones under the terms of the split with Zildjian. But that's just a guess. Plus it took the Canadian plant a couple of years to get the furnaces and rolling mills going. Prior to the split all the casting and rolling was done in the USA and then they were shipped to Canada for the next stages. So having Tosco gave Robert a way to keep casting and rolling (and experimenting) during the hiatus. He was quite an innovator, and that means experimenting.

I've seen a picture of one of those Sabian III cymbals but neither of my main sources (The Cymbal Book Book by Hugo Pinksterboer; Italian Vintage Drums and Cymbals by Luca Luciano) mention the Sabian III.

Maybe somebody else will come up with something.
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For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here
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Old 10-10-2014, 10:23 AM
John Byzance John Byzance is offline
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Default Re: Vintage Sabian Cymbals

Thank you for your quick replies, Drummerjohn333 and zenstat!

I can see they are quite rare, as they are mentioned almost nowhere. I have the 14" Hi Hat and the 20" Ride. How much worth would you say they are? The ones I own are in good condition and have very little use.

Thank you in advance!


John
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Old 10-10-2014, 10:45 AM
Drummerjohn333 Drummerjohn333 is offline
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Default Re: Vintage Sabian Cymbals

I have NEVER heard of Sabian III until reading this thread. I am delighted to discover this!

BTW - Zenstat - a sample (for metal analysis) of my damaged CB700 is still on my radar - just very busy lately. I will get around to it though. Then it will be a pleasure to share our findings with the masses!
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  #6  
Old 10-10-2014, 08:19 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: Vintage Sabian Cymbals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drummerjohn333 View Post
I have NEVER heard of Sabian III until reading this thread. I am delighted to discover this!

BTW - Zenstat - a sample (for metal analysis) of my damaged CB700 is still on my radar - just very busy lately. I will get around to it though. Then it will be a pleasure to share our findings with the masses!
I've been collecting up samples to send as a batch. But we're not in a hurry.
__________________
For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here
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  #7  
Old 10-10-2014, 08:25 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: Vintage Sabian Cymbals

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Byzance View Post
Thank you for your quick replies, Drummerjohn333 and zenstat!

I can see they are quite rare, as they are mentioned almost nowhere. I have the 14" Hi Hat and the 20" Ride. How much worth would you say they are? The ones I own are in good condition and have very little use.

Thank you in advance!


John
I don't know about price. It's hard to guess because they might be priced like Italian cymbals, or a bit lower than Avedis Zildjians of the same period, or you might just find somebody who really wants them to complete a collection. They won't be a gold mine, if that is what you are thinking.

Meanwhile, if you can get pictures that would be great. I don't think I've got any in my Sabian project (trying to document the different eras and models) database. I'm not making much progress because my time is currently going into the Avedis pages (in my signature) but I still store away any information which comes my way. And if you can't figure out how to upload them here, just PM me and I'll give you my email address to send them to and I'll put them up for you.

And here is one on eBay (item number 350964550715 and you may need to find it that way because the code which links in ebay urls seems to choke on this one and just leave a big blank area). But here is the pic which is now in my permanent archive.

__________________
For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here

Last edited by zenstat; 10-12-2014 at 08:40 PM. Reason: pic added
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