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  #1  
Old 10-04-2019, 12:56 AM
wayne wayne is offline
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Default 22" 50,s hollow logo Zildjy

This one is mint and I love it, but I,ve been told they are becoming less desirable all the time, and worth less and less. I get there are dozens of new cymbal makers now, from wherever, but are they really pushing the classics to the back while players audition these new cymbals?
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:03 AM
levelpebble levelpebble is offline
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Default Re: 22" 50,s hollow logo Zildjy

Hogwash. New cymbal makers are trying to emulate the sound that you possess in that 50s cymbal. What does that tell you?
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:53 AM
jaghog jaghog is offline
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Default Re: 22" 50,s hollow logo Zildjy

They could be the new sought after pie
In 50 years not sorry lol
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Old 10-04-2019, 04:14 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: 22" 50,s hollow logo Zildjy

Quote:
Originally Posted by wayne View Post
This one is mint and I love it, but I,ve been told they are becoming less desirable all the time, and worth less and less. I get there are dozens of new cymbal makers now, from wherever, but are they really pushing the classics to the back while players audition these new cymbals?
The evidence suggests the opposite:



T = Transitional Stamp Era (late 40s early 50s)
L = Large Stamp Era (mid 50s)
S = Small Stamp Era (late 50s)
60 = 60s Stamp Era (60s)
70 = 70s Stamp Era (70s)

More complete story: http://black.net.nz/avedis/avedis-prices.html#22

You should ask whoever is pushing that story what their evidence is. How large are their samples of completed sales? Have they controlled for the other factors which influence prices (weight, structural condition, surface condition, ad quality, seller reputation, diameter, macro economic conditions)?
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Old 10-04-2019, 07:28 PM
Drumaholic Drumaholic is offline
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Default Re: 22" 50,s hollow logo Zildjy

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenstat View Post
You should ask whoever is pushing that story what their evidence is. How large are their samples of completed sales? Have they controlled for the other factors which influence prices (weight, structural condition, surface condition, ad quality, seller reputation, diameter, macro economic conditions)?
They have none of the above. They have no backup whatsoever; they just say whatever comes right off the top of their head. So consult an expert like Zen to get the real scoop.
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:27 PM
BosLover BosLover is offline
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Default Re: 22" 50,s hollow logo Zildjy

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenstat View Post
The evidence suggests the opposite:



T = Transitional Stamp Era (late 40s early 50s)
L = Large Stamp Era (mid 50s)
S = Small Stamp Era (late 50s)
60 = 60s Stamp Era (60s)
70 = 70s Stamp Era (70s)

More complete story: http://black.net.nz/avedis/avedis-prices.html#22

You should ask whoever is pushing that story what their evidence is. How large are their samples of completed sales? Have they controlled for the other factors which influence prices (weight, structural condition, surface condition, ad quality, seller reputation, diameter, macro economic conditions)?
By the way you might want to add my son's recently acquired 22" Type II trans stamp to your statistics. It weighs 1900 grams and was purchased from Steve Maxwell's New York store for around $750. While he paid somewhat more than the high end of your range for a 22" trans, i think the combination of the Type II stamp and the very low 1900 gram weight may justify the higher price. This a probably a one of a kind cymbal. Feel free to use the stamp image I've attached.

20190618_154324_DXO - 06-18-19 by mwsilver, on Flickr
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Last edited by BosLover; 10-04-2019 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 10-04-2019, 10:59 PM
mlayton mlayton is offline
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Default Re: 22" 50,s hollow logo Zildjy

That 22" trans with that stamp and that weight is something special/desirable in my opinion. I think the price is very justified.
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Old 10-04-2019, 11:44 PM
BosLover BosLover is offline
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Default Re: 22" 50,s hollow logo Zildjy

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlayton View Post
That 22" trans with that stamp and that weight is something special/desirable in my opinion. I think the price is very justified.
Also keep in mind this was a retail store sale in a very expensive city and the cymbal was not owned by Steve Maxwell's, it was on consignment. In some other part of the US I'm guessing it might have been priced $100 or more lower.
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Last edited by BosLover; 10-05-2019 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 10-05-2019, 01:03 AM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: 22" 50,s hollow logo Zildjy

Quote:
Originally Posted by BosLover View Post
By the way you might want to add my son's recently acquired 22" Type II trans stamp to your statistics. It weighs 1900 grams and was purchased from Steve Maxwell's New York store for around $750. While he paid somewhat more than the high end of your range for a 22" trans, i think the combination of the Type II stamp and the very low 1900 gram weight may justify the higher price. This a probably a one of a kind cymbal. Feel free to use the stamp image I've attached.
Thanks Mark. It's already in my data but not in that analysis.

Just to clarify statistical terms, $750 is within the range I've recorded on that graph. I've annotated a few places on the graph.



There is an $875 sale of a 2080g Hartrick Type III in November 2014 which is the top of the range in that graph. Also a light one, but not 1900g light.

Since that graph was done there is also one outlier sale of $1700 for a 2225g Trans Stamp (unknown type) in about 2011, as a result of an overzealous bidding war (so the buyer told me earlier this year). That doesn't appear in the graph either because I haven't updated my analysis yet. Note that if it did it appear it still wouldn't have an impact on the median. The median is not influenced by one or two really high or low values. That's why robust statistical methods are more desirable than what spreadsheets do for you. You don't want to influence your expected price for a particular cymbal (say 22" old stamp K Istanbul) too much by one example which was picked up for $50 at a garage sale last week.

Statisticians are sticklers for definitions for good reason. You can see a more detailed discussion of how the box-and-whiskers plot is programmed following the link below. I realize a fair proportion of people don't follow links let alone read much before their eyes glaze over because it is about mathematics, but it is there as the formal definition. If you have a look you will see how I simplified the explanation I gave above. I could get away with that because in the case of 22" Trans Stamps there weren't any outliers shown and I checked the highest price in my raw data.

http://black.net.nz/avedis/avedis-prices.html#Boxplots
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Last edited by zenstat; 10-06-2019 at 08:24 PM. Reason: clarified
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