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  #11  
Old 08-29-2017, 06:01 AM
Peedy Peedy is offline
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Default Re: black interiors

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Originally Posted by dukekamaya View Post
Thanks Pete I'm a timber specialist.....
Many high end drums are made with cross-laminating techniques i.e. opposing grain direction.
And not so deep in my past is furnature making. I certainly could have droned on longer about various kinds of plys, veneers etc. And you're right, there are many different ways to make excellent drums, i.e. Solid and layered wood, plexiglass, metals and whatever I'm forgetting.

But frankly, if you're an expert, you should know better than to issue a sweeping statement (all Premier drums are plywood) like that when the issue is as nuanced as it is.

Pete

Last edited by Peedy; 08-29-2017 at 06:04 AM. Reason: Punctuation
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  #12  
Old 08-30-2017, 02:29 AM
dukekamaya dukekamaya is offline
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Default Re: black interiors

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Originally Posted by Peedy View Post
And not so deep in my past is furnature making. I certainly could have droned on longer about various kinds of plys, veneers etc. And you're right, there are many different ways to make excellent drums, i.e. Solid and layered wood, plexiglass, metals and whatever I'm forgetting.

But frankly, if you're an expert, you should know better than to issue a sweeping statement (all Premier drums are plywood) like that when the issue is as nuanced as it is.

Pete
True my apologies
I just find it funny when people pass off cheap drums as plywood rather its more the cheap timber, shocking bearing edges and out of round shells that make them so cheap rather than the method of lamination or ply orientation.
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  #13  
Old 08-30-2017, 10:39 PM
mike17 mike17 is offline
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Default Re: black interiors

Hey Peedy;
I am super curious about this. Would it be possible to point me in the direction of some additional info on this building technique, I would like to know more? My initial thought is that this would lead to stability issues with the shell twisting over time, (but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong!).
Thanks,
Mike
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  #14  
Old 08-31-2017, 01:14 AM
Peedy Peedy is offline
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Default Re: black interiors

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Originally Posted by dukekamaya View Post
True my apologies
I just find it funny when people pass off cheap drums as plywood rather its more the cheap timber, shocking bearing edges and out of round shells that make them so cheap rather than the method of lamination or ply orientation.
I'm pleased to say we're in total agreement. Plus I'm forced to admit that I've eaten way more than my share of crow over the years, but then I have a wife to point those instances out for me.

I really don't mean to be a dill weed. But my eyebrow did go up!

Pete

Last edited by Peedy; 08-31-2017 at 01:35 AM. Reason: Removed reference to Nixon's nick name.
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  #15  
Old 08-31-2017, 01:17 AM
Peedy Peedy is offline
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Default Re: black interiors

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Originally Posted by mike17 View Post
Hey Peedy;
I am super curious about this. Would it be possible to point me in the direction of some additional info on this building technique, I would like to know more? My initial thought is that this would lead to stability issues with the shell twisting over time, (but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong!).
Thanks,
Mike


Some years ago I saw a promo video for Sonor Drums (a personal favorite) about their own layering technique. I'm sure it's on youtube. I'll post a link if I can find it.

Pete
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  #16  
Old 08-31-2017, 01:26 AM
Peedy Peedy is offline
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Default Re: black interiors

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Originally Posted by mike17 View Post
Hey Peedy;
I am super curious about this. Would it be possible to point me in the direction of some additional info on this building technique, I would like to know more? My initial thought is that this would lead to stability issues with the shell twisting over time, (but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong!).
Thanks,
Mike
Yep, Found the Sonor shell making video. Geez, everything makes it onto youtube!

9 layers made up of 3 layers of 3 sheets each. Notice how they put each of the three joints at 1/3rd of a turn from the one before.

Now, if I actually had more money than brains, I'd totally buy a Sonor drum kit. But the Prolite I'm currently enamored with costs about 10X my current rig. The wife would freak plus there's no real reason for me to own a $4500 drum kit at this point.

But if I were 20 again. . .

Pete

Edit: This video is part of a longer promotional video that came out in the 80s or 90s. There's more of it covering various Sonor manufacturing bits on youtube if anyone wants to look.


Last edited by Peedy; 08-31-2017 at 11:34 AM. Reason: Stuff I should have mentioned:
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  #17  
Old 08-31-2017, 05:32 AM
dukekamaya dukekamaya is offline
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Default Re: black interiors

There is a video on the Tama site of them making the Star line which is really interesting to watch too
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  #18  
Old 08-31-2017, 09:56 PM
mike17 mike17 is offline
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Default Re: black interiors

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peedy View Post
Yep, Found the Sonor shell making video. Geez, everything makes it onto youtube!

9 layers made up of 3 layers of 3 sheets each. Notice how they put each of the three joints at 1/3rd of a turn from the one before.

Now, if I actually had more money than brains, I'd totally buy a Sonor drum kit. But the Prolite I'm currently enamored with costs about 10X my current rig. The wife would freak plus there's no real reason for me to own a $4500 drum kit at this point.

But if I were 20 again. . .

Pete

Edit: This video is part of a longer promotional video that came out in the 80s or 90s. There's more of it covering various Sonor manufacturing bits on youtube if anyone wants to look.

SONOR Drums - Shell Construction - YouTube
Hey Peedy;
Thanks for the link. I've seen this video before, it has been kicking around for some time. At 0:20 it talks about the ply lay up and how they are arranged at opposing angles. What I was looking for was info on the "grain aligned" shells you mentioned. Any info will help, company who did it, time period, whatever, just need a tip as to the right direction. As a huge fan of vintage Sonor, I know that they have never used a "grain aligned" lay up.
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  #19  
Old 09-02-2017, 09:07 PM
Peedy Peedy is offline
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Default Re: black interiors

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Originally Posted by mike17 View Post
Hey Peedy;
Thanks for the link. I've seen this video before, it has been kicking around for some time. At 0:20 it talks about the ply lay up and how they are arranged at opposing angles. What I was looking for was info on the "grain aligned" shells you mentioned. Any info will help, company who did it, time period, whatever, just need a tip as to the right direction. As a huge fan of vintage Sonor, I know that they have never used a "grain aligned" lay up.
Hi Mike. I'm certainly expert on what type of construction every drum maker uses on their shells. My main these was a compare and contrast with what is commonly known as plywood. And to be sure (according to the video) Sonor joins three strips that are made up of three strips each (9 individual strips total). The outer and inner are parallel while in between are three that are glued with parallel diagonal grain. That's very different from run of the mill plywood where each piece is turned 90 degrees to offer more strength.

As for all 9 pieces being parallel, I don't know. Though it wouldn't surprise me. Makers are / were always looking for a sound advantage and when you throw in inner supports, there shouldn't be a problem with warping.

The real genesis for my droning on about plywood comes from a cheap drum kit I once played (kind of like a Pacific EZ but cheaper. I went to change the heads and the bearings were unpainted. And dang it, it was made out of plywood! Worst things I ever sat behind.

Pete
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  #20  
Old 09-03-2017, 01:19 AM
mike17 mike17 is offline
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Default Re: black interiors

Hey Peedy;
Once again, I am just looking for some info on the "grain aligned" shells where all the plies run parallel.
You are misunderstanding what is going on in the Sonor video. The butt-joint on the middle set of plies is cut at a diagonal. The plies do not run diagonal. The middle set of plies is a vertical, horizontal, vertical lay up, opposite of the inner and outer set of plies. 100% exactly like run of the mill plywood.
As for all 9 plies running parallel, there would be serious stability issues, re-rings, (is that what you meant by inner supports?), or not. That shell would twist like teenagers in 1959!
Pretty much all modern shells are made up the same way, from veneers with alternating grain patterns pressed up into a shell. Sonor, DW, Tama and every other high end drum maker, all their very best shells are "plywood". For good reasons explained by physics and engineering. As for the sound that comes out of them, that depends a lot more on the drummer than the type of wood the kit is made out of.

If you are able to help point me to the information you came across on "grain aligned" shells that would be great.

Thanks,
Mike
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