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  #11  
Old 02-23-2020, 07:56 AM
JimmySticks JimmySticks is offline
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Default Re: Bop/Jazz Kits

Quote:
Originally Posted by jda View Post
Buy NEw You're better Off.
New. Smaller sizes are still cheaper. If you want Logic.
look at the price list
https://www.gretschdrums.com/drums/usa-custom
As heretical as the thought of buying new is, you are correct.

I could never pull the trigger on an old Gretsch bop kit, no matter how tasty I find them. Just way to expensive for what it is. Yeah, I get the rarity factor and what that does for value, but my Fiat Spider was one of the few nice survivors, yet it was never going to be worth much.
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2020, 08:35 AM
JimmySticks JimmySticks is offline
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Default Re: Bop/Jazz Kits

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Originally Posted by jda View Post
I love my 18

https://youtu.be/zMXl1pWUvp8

https://www.facebook.com/tim.woodwar...4503916576850/

https://www.facebook.com/tim.woodwar...4048983289010/

https://www.facebook.com/somersetlau...2829246684364/
.................................................. ...
only difference is volume you really have to kick an 18" bass drum in louder situations.
Like on the verge of collapsing the head...
Sounding good Jim!

That kit is perfect for that venue and style of music.
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  #13  
Old 02-23-2020, 08:52 AM
K.O. K.O. is online now
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Default Re: Bop/Jazz Kits

On vintage sets, as stated above, it's all about supply (low) and demand (high). On new drums I think you probably can buy a "bop" sized set for quite a bit less than a big set. And how many Catalina Club Jazz bop sets has Gretsch sold for $699?....lots and lots.
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  #14  
Old 02-23-2020, 10:09 AM
JimmySticks JimmySticks is offline
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Default Re: Bop/Jazz Kits

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Originally Posted by K.O. View Post
On vintage sets, as stated above, it's all about supply (low) and demand (high). On new drums I think you probably can buy a "bop" sized set for quite a bit less than a big set. And how many Catalina Club Jazz bop sets has Gretsch sold for $699?....lots and lots.
Yeah, I almost bought one myself, and then I went all vintage. The Catalina is a nice set for a decent price.
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  #15  
Old 02-23-2020, 11:10 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: Bop/Jazz Kits

Yeah I wish I would have had access to a kit like the Catalina Club when I was starting out. My first kit was a Tempro and it was junk....but I still loved it. Even with the Chinese aspect to many kits made today, they still blow away the old "my first drum kit" kits. The local jazz club (now defunct) purchased a Catalina Club for use by the drummers who performed....they sounded as good as anything. I've never been "anti new drums". In fact, I love drum technology a lot and I appreciate the advancements that have been made since the days when vintage drums were new.

There are a lot more intrinsic things that add to the value of a vintage musical instrument...practicality not being one of them.
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  #16  
Old 02-23-2020, 11:25 AM
funkypoodle funkypoodle is offline
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Default Re: Bop/Jazz Kits

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Originally Posted by O-Lugs View Post
The new bop kits DO look great and I'm sure they are built to more exacting standards than were the old ones....definitely an option to consider for working purposes...

...and I realize that "cool" is in the eyes and ears of the beholder...like some people will see a little two seater Porsche and think it looks cartoonish and uncomfortable. They might prefer the old land yachts like Cadillacs. To each his own, but the fact remains that the OP is correct about the vintage bop kits commanding the market at the moment.

As far as getting a big enough sound...Well....that really depends on the application....live or studio....A lot has to do with how the drums are mic'ed, EQ'ed to be honest. I once heard a Bill Frisell record with Joey Barron on drums....the bass drum sound was SO huge....I'd never heard anything like it. It sounded like the marching bass drum from Purdue University! Nope! Turns out it was an 18"! Studio magic....Go figure.

But IF I was into playing the old time big band razzamatazz type stuff, then having a little bass drum would just be....wrong. For that music, a drummer would really need a bigger bass drum. They fit that old-timey esthetic better.

A drummer like Tony Williams, for example, mastered the ability to evolve his playing from a hard bop beginning as a sideman (to arguably the greatest jazz quintet that ever existed), into more modern forms later on, as a leader of his own bands. And so, as his music changed, the need for a different type of instrument was called for. His singles around that big yellow Gretsch kit were/are unsurpassed. The expanded sounds of his big kit made it possible for him to retain a unique and individual sound throughout his entire career. He was just one of those guys...like him or not. That's why I disagree with the fashion of the bop kits as being based on hero worship...

...There were many drum heroes who used big bass drums, too, but it didn't make big bass drums popular amongst collectors, today. That's why no one is going in the direction of reissuing large diameter, shallow depth bass drums with trap trays and swan neck stands for suspended cymbals.

Who knows what the next generations of drummers will require as music continues to evolve?
You just saved me a lot of typing, O-lug!
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  #17  
Old 02-23-2020, 11:30 AM
leedybdp leedybdp is offline
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Default Re: Bop/Jazz Kits

I made this Bop drum set from orphan drums. The 7x11 tom is Leedy from sometime before World War Two. The Floor tom is a 12x16 Leedy marching tenor drum from the 1950s. The bass drum is made from an 16x18 Slingerland 1960s floor tom for which Leedy lugs dropped right in to existing holes. I wrapped the drums in White 3-D Moire. No sonner did I finish this project than I found an Oak Lawn Camco Tuxedo snare drum in factory White 3-D Moire. If I were still gigging, I think that I would have the bass drum professionally cut down from its 16" depth to 12" in depth.
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Last edited by leedybdp; 02-23-2020 at 11:33 AM.
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  #18  
Old 02-23-2020, 01:32 PM
jda jda is offline
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Default Re: Bop/Jazz Kits

There's Less Relaxing (in higher volume situations) with an 18" bass drum.

How come Signature below isn't showing..
there it is nevermind..
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Last edited by jda; 02-24-2020 at 05:00 PM.
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  #19  
Old 02-24-2020, 04:54 PM
BosLover BosLover is online now
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Default Re: Bop/Jazz Kits

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Lugs View Post
Well, most bop kits offer the same tuning ranges as the 12.14. 20 "Downbeat" style configurations -except the bop bass drums are a couple inches smaller...so essentially you can kinda get the same tuning range -except for maybe at the extreme-extremes...which few people implement, anyway.

I think it's just a style thing, really. It's cool to have one...kinda like it's cool to own a vintage sports car. Portability, yes, for sure. But yeah, they are just rarer and.....cooler!
Much more than cool, there were practical reasons for urban drummers in big cities, where most of the jazz was located, to play 12/14/18 kits. As you mentioned, portability was a key factor for many drummers, including me. Try navigating subways and cabs in a busy urban setting with large drums, lot's of cymbals and heavy duty hardware.

From the late '60s through the late '70s when I was gigging in Greenwich Village, Soho, and midtown Manhattan, ease of transportation was a significant feature of a kit.

Smaller drum sizes with light weight stands, pedals and accessories, and compactness using a minimum number of cases was extremely important. I used my 20" Lugwig BD when someone was giving me a ride, but if I had to use a cab or subway it was always an 18" bop BD.

To make getting to and from a gig more tolerable, I often played a simple two piece set in those days. I used an 18" inch bass drum in a case with a pocket in which I also stored an 18" thin crash/ride and a 16" crash. Along with that I had a specially sized and built small wheeled trap case that I had made for me at Frank Ippolito's drum shop. In it I kept my Ludwig Supraphonc with my 14" hats pressed against it in a protective bag, very compact and light weight stands and pedals, and all my sticks and brushes. In addition, I had the case sized so when I turned it on its side it served as my throne with a thin circular foam pillow I made myself and stored on top of the cymbals in the BD bag.

As a result, I was able to navigate the streets, subways and cabs with just two cases, a relatively light rolling trap case, and an 18 inch bass drum case with a cymbal pocket.
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Last edited by BosLover; 02-25-2020 at 12:04 PM.
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  #20  
Old 02-25-2020, 11:56 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: Bop/Jazz Kits

I'm on the West coast and drove a 1969 Karmann Ghia to my gigs and I had to make my own bop kit that was much smaller than the standard 12,14,18 kits. I never had to deal with the subway (Thank God!).
My gigging kit for years was a 14 X 11 Rogers Memriloc tom tom, which sat in a homemade cradle that I built in my woodshop, a 12 X 8 mounted via a Memriloc single arm to the bracket on the 14 X 11....a Tama "grabber" type cymbal arm clamped to the post of that tom arm, an old 1400 flat base cymbal stand with an old crash/ride and an old beat up Tama hi-hat stand that was traded to me for a Pearl tom tom stand...by a young kid named Jason who worked at a local music shop at the time....went on to become the drummer for a famous band that the kids like..."Death Cab For Cutie" (my niece loves them). So when she heard that story, she now thinks the hi-hat stand is holy! LOL! I got Jason to sign an autograph for her. She almost fell over...but her mom found the piece of paper and thought it was a name of an older boy whom she wasn't supposed to associate with, so her mom took it and threw it away!

Anyway, yeah...for me, even a "standard" size bop kit (12.14,18) was too big to gig with!
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