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  #11  
Old 07-23-2019, 07:50 AM
JimmySticks JimmySticks is offline
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Default Re: So Who Built My Kit?

Great info guys.

Kenwood - I posted some not-so-great close up pics of my Norma set. My eyes are not nearly as trained as yours to make out what kind of lugs they have. Maybe you can tell. The lugs on the snare are completely different from anything I've seen and are a mystery to me. They are also different from the rest of the kit. Snare release looks like Slingerland copy. Definitely a Norma though, as it still has the original drum heads and badges on it. Mine appear to have the grommets on the badges.

I'm sorry to hear about the build quality on these. From what I've read Teisco outsourced there drums, including Del Rey, but I can't find any info on who those companies were. Might have been more than one, so maybe that is where the disparity in quality comes from, some good, some not -so-good. For my beginner needs, the quality seems fine.. I do like the tone and sound of these as well. I'm sure the Evans heads help a lot.

Check the pics below -
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Last edited by JimmySticks; 07-23-2019 at 07:53 AM.
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  #12  
Old 07-23-2019, 08:13 AM
JimmySticks JimmySticks is offline
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Default Re: So Who Built My Kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idrum4fun View Post
JS!

I saw this drum on eBay and didn't bid, as I'm not collecting MIJ metal-shell snare drums. Still, for what it sold for, I would've liked to have it in my collection!

You can find a real treasure trove of vintage catalogs at drumarchive.com

I'm not sure now where I found all my Star catalogs, but I do have a nice selection in PDF format. Looking through the 60's catalogs does turn up the metal-shell snare drum and part number.

-Mark
Thanks for that link Mark. It should keep me busy for awhile!

So far, I love the Stewart catalogue. Really brings you back to a simpler time. Good stuff!
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  #13  
Old 07-23-2019, 10:09 AM
idrum4fun idrum4fun is online now
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Default Re: So Who Built My Kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmySticks View Post
Thanks for that link Mark. It should keep me busy for awhile!

So far, I love the Stewart catalogue. Really brings you back to a simpler time. Good stuff!
Yes, it was a simpler time! Vintage 60's MIJ kits have been gaining in popularity, with many sellers asking very high prices. Most times, they don't sell. But every now and then, I'm really surprised at the prices someone will pay to relive their past!

This Star kit sold on eBay for $849.99 BIN on April 26. I couldn't believe it! Here is the eBay description...

Late 60’s, early 70’s Star drum kit. Original red sparkle wrap in great condition. No splits, some bubbling near the end of some lug casings. Very minor fading in wrap on drums. Clear Mahogany/ Lauan interiors except for the bass drum has grey acoustic paint. Snare drum has rerings. Chrome is in great shape. Minimal pitting. Throne and cymbal stands has more flaws in chrome. Kit includes 2 original drum keys, adjustment wrench for mounted tom in their original vinyl pouches. Looks like the bass and both tom have the original heads. Bass drum hoops are plastic. All drums have a six lug pattern. Sizes: Bass 14 x 20. Snare 5 x 14. Tom 8 x 12. Floor tom 14 x 14.

I guess you just never know what someone will pay! Still, I think this kit was the exception and not the rule!

-Mark
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  #14  
Old 07-23-2019, 10:56 AM
mlayton mlayton is offline
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Default Re: So Who Built My Kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenwood View Post
Mike I tried to make a deal for that little kit
just before your seller brought them to the show
but we could not get together on them $$
it being so unique and with the show just around the corner
Small world! I had seen them last year at the show as well. I didn't have time to do any "shopping" at the show while running the booth. But I did see these. I was five minutes away from leaving Sunday afternoon to catch my flight and he came down to give me a better price on them. I bought just the drums. He had some "small" hardware but said that the hardware was added by him later. They are neat!

Mike
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  #15  
Old 07-23-2019, 11:39 AM
JimmySticks JimmySticks is offline
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Default Re: So Who Built My Kit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by idrum4fun View Post
Yes, it was a simpler time! Vintage 60's MIJ kits have been gaining in popularity, with many sellers asking very high prices. Most times, they don't sell. But every now and then, I'm really surprised at the prices someone will pay to relive their past!

This Star kit sold on eBay for $849.99 BIN on April 26. I couldn't believe it! Here is the eBay description...

Late 60ís, early 70ís Star drum kit. Original red sparkle wrap in great condition. No splits, some bubbling near the end of some lug casings. Very minor fading in wrap on drums. Clear Mahogany/ Lauan interiors except for the bass drum has grey acoustic paint. Snare drum has rerings. Chrome is in great shape. Minimal pitting. Throne and cymbal stands has more flaws in chrome. Kit includes 2 original drum keys, adjustment wrench for mounted tom in their original vinyl pouches. Looks like the bass and both tom have the original heads. Bass drum hoops are plastic. All drums have a six lug pattern. Sizes: Bass 14 x 20. Snare 5 x 14. Tom 8 x 12. Floor tom 14 x 14.

I guess you just never know what someone will pay! Still, I think this kit was the exception and not the rule!

-Mark
Wow, that kit looks like a clone of my Norma set. Luckily I paid a lot less than that, although I still think I might have over-paid a little. But, it is amazingly clean, like this one, and I guess that has to figure into the price.

In general, MIJ instruments are now really on the rise. BITD, most of us saw them as a distinct step down when compared to American made, but compared to the Chinese made stuff out there these days, they're quality is so much better. I have an AriaPro ll guitar from 77, and its selling for anywhere between $2500 to 3700! Amazing! But honestly, that thing will rock with the best of them.

Vintage stuff is fickle, but with the economy on the rise, people are willing to spend.
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  #16  
Old 07-23-2019, 02:06 PM
Kenwood Kenwood is offline
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Default Re: So Who Built My Kit?

Hello Jimmy
Just when one feels they have a handle on what's what and who's who?
with these MIJ kits out of nowhere you will be thrown a curveball that leaves you scratching your head??
This is the first time I have seen that hardware of yours
(lugs, cymbal mount, tom mounting plate, bass drum T rods,ect ect) On a drum kit wearing Norma badges.
That particular combination is very seldom seen
and most times when a kit so appointed shows up they have either a Zim Gar or Recco badge on them.

Mine in the 1st pic here are Zim Gar badged
Even the badges I am speaking of,
are unique to just these particular kits
They are not any of the usual badges you would normally see on Zim Gar kits (there were four or five) as all the known makers depending on the timeline have had their own turn with Zim Gar badged drums)

So I have only seen these uncommon badges with that same uncommon build config of ours
But as I said, never before have I seen Norma badges on such a special edition kit only the Recco and Zim Gar until now.

What I think is the case with your drums is that the bass and toms went out together from the factory , but the snare drum though it is red sparkle and badged Norma is possibly a replacement that was added later. I think that for two reasons

A. the snare drum hardware does not match the rest of the kit, but at the same time,
It would be the least obvious a mis-match when compared with any of the other commonly seen Norma badged snare drums in terms of the lug style.
and the drum itself is completely different than the snare drum that would normally come with one of these rare bird kits.
the 2nd and 3rd pics show the snare that should be with the kit.
And of all the MIJ snare drums I have collected it is pretty unique looking
and for this reason it could have been held back from being sold with the rest by some previous owner
The strainer looks very Roger's clock face inspired and the lugs almost look like Tama
also the hoops are taller than any of my other mij snares,

And B. while your snare drum hardware does not match with the rest of "your" kit
it does exactly match with hardware on my center lug kit described in my earlier post and re-posted here (4th pic)
.
Now on the floor tom I do see a difference between yours and mine
mine having sort of a older Kent or Leedy style leg brackets pic.5
while yours more closely matches the cymbal arm bracket on the bass drum. which does match with the one on mine.
So Jimmy nothing with these MIJs is chiseled in solid stone.

As to my comment regarding the build quality being flimsy I was speaking strictly of my center lug kit again in pic 4

Your drums are beautiful and pretty darned unique

Congrats and ENJOY!!....Kenwood
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Last edited by Kenwood; 07-23-2019 at 02:26 PM.
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  #17  
Old 07-23-2019, 02:44 PM
Kenwood Kenwood is offline
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Default Re: So Who Built My Kit?

Mike Yes as I recall aside from the timing (pre-show)
the hardware was one of the obstacles in my negotiations as well
as much as I love these old Japanese made drums
I do not have the same love or sense of nostalgia for the original hardware
save for static display purposes only.

Last edited by Kenwood; 07-23-2019 at 02:50 PM.
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  #18  
Old 07-23-2019, 05:25 PM
JimmySticks JimmySticks is offline
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Default Re: So Who Built My Kit?

Kenwood - wow, that's some great info there. Thanks for taking the time to look so thoroughly! For sure, nothing is set in stone when it comes to vintage things. I've run across these problems with vintage Italian racing bikes and vintage watches to. It seems most companies kept lousy records and didn't record their histories. I guess they never thought their products were going to be collectible or valuable. Little did they know that legions of geeks would one day seek these things out and collect them!

I think you are likely correct, the snare probably didn't come with the original kit. It might have been bought later as an add-on. It is pretty unique as well. Hard to believe this might be a "special edition", but that would be quite cool as well. You know, it wouldn't be far fetched to say that a store or dealer re-badged this kit from say a Zim Gar to a Norma to fill an order or customer need. Easy enough to switch badges, right? I mean who would have known back then?

I'm glad you meant the center lugged drums were somewhat flimsy, and not my style set. I was a bit worried when I misunderstood you! Lol

Glad this little kit is providing us with some fun detective work. Besides playing this kit, the search is the best part!
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  #19  
Old 07-23-2019, 07:31 PM
idrum4fun idrum4fun is online now
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Default Re: So Who Built My Kit?

Kenwood! Once again, some great drums! I have a "Recco" snare drum with identical hardware to you your drum. Smacks of being a Rogers clone! The internals of the strainer work the same way as the Clockface strainer! The butt is very similar and the "tall boy" style hoops are actually taller than Rogers! The lugs look like two small Beavertails molded together! The muffler is definitely inspired by Rogers!

Looking through my "Vintage Stencil Drums" book, by Marc Patch, there is a (?) next to Recco, meaning it isn't certain as to the builder. Don't you just love stencil drums?!!

-Mark
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  #20  
Old 08-02-2019, 09:33 PM
Kenwood Kenwood is offline
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Default Re: So Who Built My Kit?

Hello Mark It never occurred to me
how much the snare lugs do indeed look like two beavertails molded together

They sort of reminded me of my cherry wine Tama Mastercraft snare lugs
which while having a very sturdy look, they in reality, have a pretty high failure rate (note the one oddball Artstar lug)
and OH HECK YES I sure do love collecting these cool little drum kits
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Last edited by Kenwood; 08-02-2019 at 09:36 PM.
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