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  #1  
Old 08-13-2018, 08:49 AM
woody1953 woody1953 is offline
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Location: Delaware, USA
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Default Cymbal lathing

I have an 18" 70s A Zildjian that sounded too gong(y) for me. I contacted Daniel Perry of Bakersfield Modded Cymbals and we discussed (he was patient) the best path forward to get the sound I wanted. I am constantly confused over the terms splashy, dark, bright, etc when verbalizing cymbal sounds. Options included lathing, edge thinning, ozone cutting or diameter reduction. I sent it off to him and he worked wonders. His recommendation was lathe the bottom and thin the edge. Tone changed from E to G sharp. He even polished off some of the top surface oxidation (not bright polished). I know there are others out there but felt the members should know about this stand up guy. He can be found on Ebay and does other cymbal mods like logo inking and color splashing.
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1968 Ludwig Super Classic kit Blue Oyster Pearl
22, 13, 16, 14x5
1968 Ludwig Hollywood kit Blue Oyster Pearl
22, 12, 13, 16
A Zildjian cymbals (50's-70's)

Last edited by woody1953; 08-13-2018 at 08:53 AM. Reason: replace photo
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  #2  
Old 08-13-2018, 11:26 AM
idrum4fun idrum4fun is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal lathing

Hi woody1953! Another option for cymbal lathing, and much closer to you, would be Maxwell's Drums at their Chicago location. Here's a good link... https://www.maxwelldrums.com/cymbal-...lls-c-625.html

I've also checked out the service you used. Only about 100 miles from me!

I've got some older Zildjians that just don't cut it. I'd be willing to try this service on one of the ride cymbals and see what happens!

-Mark
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  #3  
Old 08-13-2018, 12:10 PM
woody1953 woody1953 is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal lathing

Hi Mark, I knew about Steve Maxwell's service but honestly, was intimidated about using his store. Big fish, little fish thing. Call me crazy.
Thanks for your comments.
__________________
1968 Ludwig Super Classic kit Blue Oyster Pearl
22, 13, 16, 14x5
1968 Ludwig Hollywood kit Blue Oyster Pearl
22, 12, 13, 16
A Zildjian cymbals (50's-70's)
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  #4  
Old 08-13-2018, 05:21 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal lathing

Thanks for showing us the results. It looks very nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by woody1953 View Post
I have an 18" 70s A Zildjian that sounded too gong(y) for me... I am constantly confused over the terms splashy, dark, bright, etc when verbalizing cymbal sounds.
I'm confused by the way individuals use these terms too. Including gongy. I think examples using sound files might be the only way to help with the lack of consensus in use of terms. Do you happen to have a before sound file for yours? And an after sound file?

Quote:
Originally Posted by woody1953 View Post
I sent it off to him and he worked wonders. His recommendation was lathe the bottom and thin the edge. Tone changed from E to G sharp.
In terms of pitch change are you saying the perceived pitch went up from E to G sharp? Or down from E to the G sharp below?

My expectation is that if you do just bottom lathing (and no rehammering) that would raise the perceived pitch because the curvature (bow) of the cymbal would increase. But I'm still working on a statistical model which relates structural changes to things like perceived pitch. Since I don't have the equipment do mods myself I have to rely on those who do for any experimental evidence.

There is another factor to do with lower weight which (other things being equal) would lower the perceived pitch. I'm not sure which factor would dominate in your cymbal. I suspect that doing just bottom lathing (and no rehammering) would limit the amount of weight which could be removed and that the change in curvature would be the dominant factor. Do you happen to know what the weight was before the rework?

On your photo of the cymbal bottom it looks like there is a fair amount of subtle hammering. If that wasn't done during the modification process this makes me wonder about the basis for your identification of the cymbal as 1970s. Trademark stamp? Hammering and lathing style? Ink? It might also be informative to see a photo from the top view.
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For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here
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  #5  
Old 08-14-2018, 02:50 AM
Chromeo Chromeo is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal lathing

E to G sharp? Since when were cymbals tuned to notes?
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  #6  
Old 08-14-2018, 05:10 AM
woody1953 woody1953 is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal lathing

Thanks for your interest everyone. He did not tune the cymbal, he only used tone as an indication of the change in pitch before and after mods. He did not weigh before, an oversight, final weight is 1682 grams. I have iPhone videos demonstrating the sound of the cymbal but no audio file. I will attempt to post those, wish me luck. Trademark stamp indicates 70s manufacture, it never had an ink stamp. Did I answer all the questions?
__________________
1968 Ludwig Super Classic kit Blue Oyster Pearl
22, 13, 16, 14x5
1968 Ludwig Hollywood kit Blue Oyster Pearl
22, 12, 13, 16
A Zildjian cymbals (50's-70's)
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  #7  
Old 08-14-2018, 04:58 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: Cymbal lathing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chromeo View Post
E to G sharp? Since when were cymbals tuned to notes?
Cymbals are not tuned to a particular pitch, let alone a note on the piano. That's why we use the term "perceived pitch" for what people report when they listen to a cymbal and compare that sound with a second cymbal. In this case it is the same cymbal and the comparison is being made before and after. In the listening tests I've been involved with there is a reasonable degree of congruence between different listeners deciding which of two cymbals has a higher "perceived pitch". The intriguing thing is that there isn't 100% agreement. Some people report "perceived pitch" reversals compared to the majority. That is enough to tell us that something else is going on.
__________________
For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here
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