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  #21  
Old 06-14-2018, 02:19 PM
landofahhs landofahhs is offline
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Default Re: Old Man Rant: Something I hope never happens to drums.

It's interesting to hear the restorers, collectors, and interested parties discuss, to me, what is deception versus 'real' or unrestored. I'm old and seen a lot of drums. I've mentioned, on this forum several times, when I've seen drums that don't fit or match my original set from 1965. Yet I've see such drums labeled as being from the 1960's...I've taken the attitude of 'buyer beware' and just leave it be if no one asks me.
Also, as mentioned, I've seen other items on TV that are supposed to be restored to original condition that, in my eye, don't reflect reality from my younger years....such as with cars when they are supposed to be restored to stock condition yet there are decals, engine colors, body colors and interiors that I never saw growing up in LA.
On the other hand, with such things, I've seen real unrestored and original cars, drums, furniture, etc. that fills my brain with excitement. From my experience the untouched stuff is the really valuable 'stuff'...but being unrestored doesn't make it the best because a lot of the old stuff, be it drums, cars or whatever, hasn't been updated or modified for improved performance or sound with the state of the art components or technique...but isn't that exactly what makes antiques unique and valuable?
I think it all goes to the buyer and what they want and expect of their drums, car or whatever. A seller, has a responsibility to anyone they sell to, to be honest and upfront. That responsibility carries over to the entire area of the sellers expertise. If a drum is restored to look like a 60's drum but it began life as a 70's drum it's dishonest, IMHO, to say otherwise. It doesn't take much to muddy up the market with such items and before lone the facts get tweaked and changed leaving confusion and degrading the true value of the item. Any item that is restored to be one thing or another that it actually is not....is false, fake, misleading and simply created for the sake of greed. Fake things only end up cheapening the items that are 'real' and what is worse ends up creating confusion in the future to experts....but in a world where honesty or showing the provenance is taken lightly the entire field becomes more and more polluted. Pretty soon people end up giving credit and value to something that has no basis in the facts...and when that happens the 'real thing' is questioned...what is the value of restoration or history when it is acceptable to 'age' something that is not from the period and then to sell it as something it is not?
As mentioned, I own a completely original unrestored 1965 Hollywood set. I also own a 1969 Fender Telecaster Thinline and a 1975 Cherry Les Paul studio....I'll keep them as they are, all original no fake dents, scratches or chips. These are instruments that I used, played and cared for. I know their value personally and that's what I've shared with my daughters. My instruments value transcends the fake or aged stuff because it is real. When I'm gone I hope my values have been embedded into my children so they can grow old with high quality items and spend their later years enjoying such things which grow more and more irreplaceable with time.
One last note, I understand the desire to have products that are no longer available...and....I would never want to deprive anyone of the enjoyment and pleasure of playing or using such things, but putting a scratch or a dent into a new item will never make it into the item it is trying to emulate...only a time machine could do that, period.
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Last edited by landofahhs; 06-14-2018 at 02:42 PM.
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  #22  
Old 06-14-2018, 02:24 PM
grantro grantro is offline
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Cool Re: Old Man Rant: Something I hope never happens to drums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by landofahhs View Post
It's interesting to hear the restorers, collectors, and interested parties discuss, to me, what is deception versus 'real' or unrestored. I'm old and seen a lot of drums. I've mentioned, on this forum several times, when I've seen drums that don't fit or match my original set from 1965. Yet I see such drums labeled as being from the 1960's...I've taken the attitude of 'buyer beware' and just leave it be if no one asks me.
Also, as mentioned, I've seen other items on TV that are supposed to be restored that in my eye don't reflect reality from my younger years....such as with cars when they are supposed to be restored to stock condition yet there are decals, engine colors, body colors and interiors that I never saw growing up in LA.
On the other hand, with such things, I've seen real unrestored and original cars, drums, furniture, etc. From my experience the untouched stuff is the really valuable 'stuff'...but being unrestored doesn't make it the best because a lot of the old stuff, be it drums, cars or whatever, hasn't been updated or modified for improved performance or sound.
I think it all goes to the buyer and what they want and expect of their drums, car or whatever...a person has a responsibility to anyone they sell to, to be honest and upfront. If a drum is restored to look like a 60's drum but it began life as a 70's drum it's dishonest, IMHO, to say otherwise...The result of muddying up the market with items that are restored to be one thing or another only ends up cheapening the items that are 'real' and ends up causing confusion in the future to experts....but in a world where honesty or showing the provenance is taken lightly the entire field becomes more and more polluted. Pretty soon people end up giving credit and value to something that has no basis in the facts...and when that happens the 'real thing' is questioned...what is the value of restoration or history when it is acceptable to 'age' something that is not from the period?
As mentioned, I own a completely original unrestored 1965 Hollywood set. I also own a 1969 Fender Telecaster Thinline and a 1975 Cherry Les Paul studio....I'll keep them as they are, all original no fake dents, scratches or chips. These are instruments that I used, played and cared for. I know their value personally and that's what I've shared with my daughters...when I'm gone I hope my values have been embedded into my children or one day in their later lives they'll be wishing they listened to dad because original is where the value is IMHO because it can't be faked, modified, or changed.
Well said!!

Cheers
__________________
1976 Ludwig Mach 4 Thermogloss 26-18-14-14sn
1978 Ludwig Stainless 22-22-18-16-14-13-12 c/w 6-8-10-12-13-14-15-16-18-20-22-24 concert toms
1975 Sonor Phonic Centennials Metallic Pewter 22-16-13-12-14sn (D506)
1971 Ludwig Classic Bowling Ball OBP 22-16-14-13
1960's Stewart Peacock Pearl 20-16-12-14sn
1980`s Ludwig Coliseum Piano Black 8x14 snare
1973 Rogers Superten 5x14 & 6.5x14 COS snares
1970`s John Grey Capri Aquamarine Sparkle 5x14 snare
1941 Ludwig & Ludwig Super 8x14 snare
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  #23  
Old 06-14-2018, 04:44 PM
DrumBob DrumBob is offline
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Default Re: Old Man Rant: Something I hope never happens to drums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludwig-dude View Post
Ha ha ha, I like that! "decrepitude".....is that even a word?? I guess it is now! LOL!
It certainly is a legitimate word. Check this out:

de∑crep∑i∑tude
dəˈkrepəˌt(y)o͞od/
noun
noun: decrepitude; plural noun: decrepitudes

the state of being decrepit.
"he had passed directly from middle age into decrepitude"
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'01 DW Collectors Series, Oyster White, 10/12/14/16/22
'64 Slingerland, 13/16/22 (to be restored)
'65 Leedy, Blue Sparkle, 12/14/20
'67 Ludwig, Burgundy Sparkle, 12/13/16/22
'73 Slingerland, Sky Blue Pearl, 12/13/16/22
'72 Rogers, Oyster Black, 13/16/22
'70s Tempro, Red Grain Pearl, 12/14/14sn/20
Too many snares to list!

Author of the book, "Great Rock Drummers Of The Sixties."
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  #24  
Old 06-15-2018, 08:40 AM
leedybdp leedybdp is offline
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Default Re: Old Man Rant: Something I hope never happens to drums.

Dear Mr. landofahhs: Thank you for your opinion. I will offer you the same words that I offered my customers who did not like , and did not want to stock the "Time Machine" series of guitars and basses. "That's fine. You don't like them, and you don't want them in your store. We are already having difficulty supplying enough of those instruments to store owners who appreciate what these instruments are. The musicians who want them outnumber the available supply. So, let's not spend any of our valuable time together discussing those instruments. Let's take care of your perceived stock needs for your store and your customers".
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No matter how far you push the envelope, it is still stationery.
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  #25  
Old 06-15-2018, 07:57 PM
OddBall OddBall is offline
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Default Re: Old Man Rant: Something I hope never happens to drums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by landofahhs View Post
It's interesting to hear the restorers, collectors, and interested parties discuss, to me, what is deception versus 'real' or unrestored. I'm old and seen a lot of drums. I've mentioned, on this forum several times, when I've seen drums that don't fit or match my original set from 1965. Yet I've see such drums labeled as being from the 1960's...I've taken the attitude of 'buyer beware' and just leave it be if no one asks me.
Also, as mentioned, I've seen other items on TV that are supposed to be restored to original condition that, in my eye, don't reflect reality from my younger years....such as with cars when they are supposed to be restored to stock condition yet there are decals, engine colors, body colors and interiors that I never saw growing up in LA.
On the other hand, with such things, I've seen real unrestored and original cars, drums, furniture, etc. that fills my brain with excitement. From my experience the untouched stuff is the really valuable 'stuff'...but being unrestored doesn't make it the best because a lot of the old stuff, be it drums, cars or whatever, hasn't been updated or modified for improved performance or sound with the state of the art components or technique...but isn't that exactly what makes antiques unique and valuable?
I think it all goes to the buyer and what they want and expect of their drums, car or whatever. A seller, has a responsibility to anyone they sell to, to be honest and upfront. That responsibility carries over to the entire area of the sellers expertise. If a drum is restored to look like a 60's drum but it began life as a 70's drum it's dishonest, IMHO, to say otherwise. It doesn't take much to muddy up the market with such items and before lone the facts get tweaked and changed leaving confusion and degrading the true value of the item. Any item that is restored to be one thing or another that it actually is not....is false, fake, misleading and simply created for the sake of greed. Fake things only end up cheapening the items that are 'real' and what is worse ends up creating confusion in the future to experts....but in a world where honesty or showing the provenance is taken lightly the entire field becomes more and more polluted. Pretty soon people end up giving credit and value to something that has no basis in the facts...and when that happens the 'real thing' is questioned...what is the value of restoration or history when it is acceptable to 'age' something that is not from the period and then to sell it as something it is not?
As mentioned, I own a completely original unrestored 1965 Hollywood set. I also own a 1969 Fender Telecaster Thinline and a 1975 Cherry Les Paul studio....I'll keep them as they are, all original no fake dents, scratches or chips. These are instruments that I used, played and cared for. I know their value personally and that's what I've shared with my daughters. My instruments value transcends the fake or aged stuff because it is real. When I'm gone I hope my values have been embedded into my children so they can grow old with high quality items and spend their later years enjoying such things which grow more and more irreplaceable with time.
One last note, I understand the desire to have products that are no longer available...and....I would never want to deprive anyone of the enjoyment and pleasure of playing or using such things, but putting a scratch or a dent into a new item will never make it into the item it is trying to emulate...only a time machine could do that, period.
Older does not mean better all the time. A 20`s BB sounds like **** to my D-505. And although I love the sound looks of my Phonics, a modern SQ-2 system just blows them away in performance.
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.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
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  #26  
Old 06-16-2018, 05:55 AM
Rik_Everglade Rik_Everglade is offline
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Default Re: Old Man Rant: Something I hope never happens to drums.

How about Seasick Steve's drummer? He love him some relic, and check out his ride.

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  #27  
Old 06-17-2018, 03:30 PM
human71 human71 is offline
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Default Re: Old Man Rant: Something I hope never happens to drums.

BEC-- C&C drum company already makes a "weathered" finish called "Crackled", resembling 50 year old lead paint that has "crackled" over the years. Looks cool, but no way in hell am i going to drop $2K on a kit that looks like it's been sitting in a barn for 5 decades.

Last edited by human71; 06-17-2018 at 03:36 PM.
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  #28  
Old 06-17-2018, 03:39 PM
human71 human71 is offline
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Default Re: Old Man Rant: Something I hope never happens to drums.

Here is an example of one of the kits in white.
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Click image for larger version

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  #29  
Old 06-17-2018, 07:16 PM
Sweets Sweets is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 48
Default Re: Old Man Rant: Something I hope never happens to drums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by human71 View Post
Here is an example of one of the kits in white.
What kind of person would buy something like that?
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  #30  
Old 06-17-2018, 08:16 PM
grantro grantro is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Cool Re: Old Man Rant: Something I hope never happens to drums.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rik_Everglade View Post
How about Seasick Steve's drummer? He love him some relic, and check out his ride.

Seasick Steve √* Glastonbury 2013 - YouTube
Mr. John Paul Jones on bass!! Very cool!!

Cheers
__________________
1976 Ludwig Mach 4 Thermogloss 26-18-14-14sn
1978 Ludwig Stainless 22-22-18-16-14-13-12 c/w 6-8-10-12-13-14-15-16-18-20-22-24 concert toms
1975 Sonor Phonic Centennials Metallic Pewter 22-16-13-12-14sn (D506)
1971 Ludwig Classic Bowling Ball OBP 22-16-14-13
1960's Stewart Peacock Pearl 20-16-12-14sn
1980`s Ludwig Coliseum Piano Black 8x14 snare
1973 Rogers Superten 5x14 & 6.5x14 COS snares
1970`s John Grey Capri Aquamarine Sparkle 5x14 snare
1941 Ludwig & Ludwig Super 8x14 snare
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