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  #11  
Old 05-26-2020, 02:39 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: Help Identifying this Ludwig

Sorry...In my previous post, I meant to say Hollywood, not Super Classic....

carry on.
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  #12  
Old 05-26-2020, 03:10 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: Help Identifying this Ludwig

Again...in MY mind, I see an almost flawless green sparkle finish, beautiful black paint on the wood hoops...almost as if it's been sitting in a hermetically sealed room....BUT...the tom mount on the bass drum indicates that the kit was VERY, VERY, VERY likely something else, originally - a kit with two tom toms. Otherwise, it would have had a rail consolette for the single 13" tom and been a Super Classic (Or, possibly a Deluxe Classic during that era) configuration. So, then....WHY is everything in great shape, except the second tom is somehow mysteriously not there? And why would drums in such great shape be missing the mufflers? Yes, people took them off because they rattle (as has been mentioned already)...but that would indicate drums that would look in more used condition. I don't see any holes for the mufflers. Are there any pictures of that area of the shells?
And I also get the suspicion that some of those stains inside the shells are from contact cement that got spilled...hmmmmm...

My guess is that someone had three shells to make a super Classic with...did NOT have the 12" shell...so decided to make a quasi-Super Classic -except with a modern single tom mount used on a bass drum shell that was originally drilled for a double tom mount
Also, the edges in some of those pictures just don't look right to me....like they've been re-edged. However, having said that, I have seen some terribly crazy cut edges from drums of that era, too...so I'm not 100% sure.
Additionally, that green sparkle seems a little too much in the blue zone -like it's not quite the same dye color used in the original green sparkle. Maybe it's the lighting or something, but I just have a feeling...
Almost without exception, green sparkle had a chemical reaction fade that happened regardless of storage conditions -even without being exposed to sunlight...so I'd have liked to see SOME kind of indication of said fade, somewhere....but I don't.

Always be very skeptical when it comes to green sparkle in that great of shape. That's my opinion...for now.
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Last edited by O-Lugs; 05-26-2020 at 03:29 AM.
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  #13  
Old 05-26-2020, 03:28 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: Help Identifying this Ludwig

Just ...I had a Deluxe Classic with pointy badges and no serial numbers for the 13 and 22 and the 16 had a number (can't reference it anymore) that traced to be from 1976. All of the shells were the clear lacquered maple interiors. the granitone came after the clear maple interiors....So if that badge number (above) traces to earlier than 1976, then that would cinch it for me.
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  #14  
Old 05-26-2020, 03:56 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: Help Identifying this Ludwig

Also...just thought of it...Drums of this era had a particular tendency to have some lifting/curling up at the wrap seam due to the type of glue that was used. I'd like to take a look at the wrap seams, as well.
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  #15  
Old 05-26-2020, 10:18 AM
KCDrumDad KCDrumDad is offline
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Default Re: Help Identifying this Ludwig

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlayton View Post
In Rick Gier's comprehensive Ludwig dating guide, he lists a interior like these with the serial number of 857643. So it's not too far off of the grid.
The next lowest serial number I have that has a Granitone interior is 830850.
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Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
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www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com
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  #16  
Old 05-26-2020, 10:32 AM
slingerfan slingerfan is offline
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Default Re: Help Identifying this Ludwig

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Lugs View Post
Just ...I had a Deluxe Classic with pointy badges and no serial numbers for the 13 and 22 and the 16 had a number (can't reference it anymore) that traced to be from 1976. All of the shells were the clear lacquered maple interiors. the granitone came after the clear maple interiors....So if that badge number (above) traces to earlier than 1976, then that would cinch it for me.
O-Lugs, you should really pick up a copy of Rick Gier's "Serial Number Based Dating Guides for Vintage Ludwig Drums", you will enjoy it. While you are correct that clear maple interiors preceded granitone, the book clearly states that both interior types were used ~'71-~'76. The book also addresses why so many drums are misidentified as being 1976.

Last edited by slingerfan; 05-26-2020 at 11:08 AM.
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  #17  
Old 05-26-2020, 11:37 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: Help Identifying this Ludwig

LOL! Great! Yes, I'd like to get a copy. I always went by this website's resources for those numbers before, but I forgot that there are some inaccuracies. I hope there is a way to correct the inaccuracies that are listed here and maybe we could replace the inaccuracies with the ones from Rick's book...?
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  #18  
Old 05-26-2020, 11:57 AM
O-Lugs O-Lugs is offline
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Default Re: Help Identifying this Ludwig

I looked but couldn't find where to buy the guide...saw his website and looked around a bit. I should probably take some time and contribute my drum badge information to him.

I don't remember the number on the pointy B/O badge of my former deluxe Classic...the 13 and 22 were blank and none of the shells had paper labels but they had the glossy clear maple lacquered interiors.

There was also a period of time (1969) when Ludwig had maple interiors but they didn't have the glossy lacquer. But I had NO idea that the Granitone AND clear maple shiny lacquer interiors were made during the same period. For some reason, that almost doesn't make any sense...even for Ludwig! But I'll try to contact Rick and see if I can get a guide.
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  #19  
Old 05-26-2020, 12:57 PM
KCDrumDad KCDrumDad is offline
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Default Re: Help Identifying this Ludwig

Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Lugs View Post
I looked but couldn't find where to buy the guide...saw his website and looked around a bit. I should probably take some time and contribute my drum badge information to him.

I don't remember the number on the pointy B/O badge of my former deluxe Classic...the 13 and 22 were blank and none of the shells had paper labels but they had the glossy clear maple lacquered interiors.

There was also a period of time (1969) when Ludwig had maple interiors but they didn't have the glossy lacquer. But I had NO idea that the Granitone AND clear maple shiny lacquer interiors were made during the same period. For some reason, that almost doesn't make any sense...even for Ludwig! But I'll try to contact Rick and see if I can get a guide.
I have copies of the guides that I am happy to sell directly. I am happy to inscribe them if you want. Otherwise you can buy through Rob at Rebeats.com.
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Collecting information about the following for ongoing research projects:
Gretsch drums with serial numbers,
Ludwig Keystone and B/O badge drums with serial numbers and date stamps,
Ludwig Standards from 1968-73, and
Ludwigs with paper labels from 1971-72
www.GretschDrumDatingGuide.com
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  #20  
Old 05-26-2020, 01:41 PM
K.O. K.O. is offline
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Default Re: Help Identifying this Ludwig

Just a theory of course but the switching back and forth between clear and granitone interiors may have been based on the grade of wood Ludwig had available at a given time. Nice looking maple would get clear coated but if they found themselves with some less pretty maple (or perhaps needed to use mahogany due to running short on maple) they may have decided to paint the interiors of those shells with Granitone.

Just a thought.
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