Vintage Drum Forum the best vintage drum forum on the Internet - Vintage Drum History - Vintage Drum Questions

Go Back   Vintage Drum Forum > Vintage Cymbals

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-02-2019, 07:39 PM
HowlerMonkey HowlerMonkey is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: miami
Posts: 63
Default 1950s Zildjian crash or ride or crash/ride.

I'm not experienced enough with vintage cymbals to make the call.

It's got a 7/16 hole and small stamp so it's likely from before 1958 but I'm not sure it's real name or intended purpose.

Also not sure if those are factory rivets.

It weighs 2325 grams.




Last edited by HowlerMonkey; 11-02-2019 at 07:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-03-2019, 12:56 AM
OddBall OddBall is online now
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Boston MA.
Posts: 6,171
Default Re: 1950s Zildjian crash or ride or crash/ride.

Looks all factory to me. I've an A with the holes and when I got it there was only one rivet left. When it has rivets, I would think it's dual purpose by default.
__________________
It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-03-2019, 12:21 PM
HowlerMonkey HowlerMonkey is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: miami
Posts: 63
Default Re: 1950s Zildjian crash or ride or crash/ride.

Just not sure whether it's a Crash, Ride, or crash/ride.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-03-2019, 12:50 PM
idrum4fun idrum4fun is online now
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,055
Default Re: 1950s Zildjian crash or ride or crash/ride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HowlerMonkey View Post
Just not sure whether it's a Crash, Ride, or crash/ride.
Knowing the weight, in grams, can help to determine what this might be. Use this link to a fairly good calculator. Just enter the gram weight and inches. Not 100 percent foolproof, but fairly accurate!

https://www.budstein.com/cymbalweight/

As an example, I've had a 20" Sabian AA cymbal since the mid or late 80's. It was marked "Medium Ride". It's always been a bit "pingy" to me. It weighs in at 2574 grams. Using the calculator, it shows as a "Heavy". No wonder it's pingy!

Here's a link that was on Cymbalholics in regards to weight vs type for 22", 20" and 18" cymbals. Very helpful!

https://www.drummerworld.com/forums/...-scale.120712/

-Mark

Last edited by idrum4fun; 11-03-2019 at 12:54 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-03-2019, 04:17 PM
grantro grantro is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,532
Cool Re: 1950s Zildjian crash or ride or crash/ride.

Mark,

Thanks for the link to the cymbal calculator...Very useful!!

Cheers
__________________
1976 Ludwig Mach 4 Thermogloss 26-18-14-14sn
1978 Ludwig Stainless 22-22-18-16-14-13-12 c/w 6-8-10-12-13-14-15-16-18-20-22-24 concert toms
1975 Sonor Phonic Centennials Metallic Pewter 22-16-13-12-14sn (D506)
1971 Ludwig Classic Bowling Ball OBP 22-16-14-13
1960's Stewart Peacock Pearl 20-16-12-14sn
1980`s Ludwig Coliseum Piano Black 8x14 snare
1973 Rogers Superten 5x14 & 6.5x14 COS snares
1970`s John Grey Capri Aquamarine Sparkle 5x14 snare
1941 Ludwig & Ludwig Super 8x14 snare
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-03-2019, 05:55 PM
idrum4fun idrum4fun is online now
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,055
Default Re: 1950s Zildjian crash or ride or crash/ride.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grantro View Post
Mark,

Thanks for the link to the cymbal calculator...Very useful!!

Cheers
You're very welcome!

-Mark
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-06-2019, 09:56 PM
HowlerMonkey HowlerMonkey is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: miami
Posts: 63
Default Re: 1950s Zildjian crash or ride or crash/ride.

Thanks man. The variety of vintage mystery zildjians I have will surely test that list.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-07-2019, 06:47 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 1,683
Default Re: 1950s Zildjian crash or ride or crash/ride.

At that weight and diameter and production era (late 50s) the likely models are Bounce, Medium Ride (which usually have model ink saying Medium), or maybe Bop or Dance. Probably not a Ping at that weight.

For example, models with ink and their weights in the 1970s 20" 70s A Zildjians with model ink:
  • ex. thin 1875g (this was a Flat Top Ride)
  • crash 1642g
  • thin 1620g*, 1748g, 1748g, 1755g
  • crash ride 1914g, 1918g, 2054g, 2080g, 2114g (plus a 1943g thanks to nickrobotron)
  • thin crash 1944g**
  • paper thin 2087g (seems rather heavy unless they meant paper thin ride not paper thin crash)
  • medium thin 2010g (plus a medium thin ride 60s stamp 2036g thanks to nickrobotron)
  • light ride 2130g
  • medium ride 2200g - 2678g
  • mini cup ride 2475g, 2951g, 3180g (it seems they came in two weight classes based on other info)
  • deep ride 2800g - 2950g
  • ping ride 2850g - 3100g
  • earth ride over 3500g

* more likely a thin crash missing the crash ink but the thin ink was still there
** more likely something other than a thin crash at that weight


The late 1950s cymbals were lighter, although I'm still working through my large data set to present a nice summary of the whole picture for every production era and diameter. I just happen to have done the 70s analysis for 18" and 20" recently.

Weights proceed in an orderly fashion with some overlaps and a few as yet unresolved oddities. You can see where Crash Rides fit in the overall scheme. Note that Crash Rides also use the 5.5" diameter bell (and they share this with Crashes) in the 1960s. Medium Rides used the 5" bell. I haven't yet traced that larger bell die back into the late 1950s on Crash Rides or Crashes but I can't rule it out. There is a similar 5.5" diameter bell in use in the mid 50s which I have on a 22" Large Stamp at 2800g. However, the bell shape is different from the 60s one used on 18" and 20" Crashes and Crash Rides. The other difference between the Crash Ride and a Ride is greater taper (thinner metal) in the Crash Ride to improve the crash.

The attribute to check for factory rivets is how they are finished on the underside. That doesn't show in your photo. In fact I can't tell if they are split rivets (which would be non factory) or tube rivets (which could be factory). Factory rivets were finished with the special tool Zildjian used which makes star shapes.



If those are tube rivets with the star pattern then they pass the factory test. Otherwise they don't pass the factory test. Note that the holes could be factory and the rivets replaced later on.
__________________
"The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance" (Robert R Coveyou)

Cymbal Wiki || A one stop shop for all things cymbal
Paiste portal click here || Avedis Zildjian portal click here || K Zildjian Istanbul portal click here
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-10-2019, 04:42 PM
HowlerMonkey HowlerMonkey is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: miami
Posts: 63
Default Re: 1950s Zildjian crash or ride or crash/ride.

The bell in the first post is 5 inch.

The rivets seem not to be factory.

I guess it is a medium ride or a heavy crash ride.

Thank you for the information.

Last edited by HowlerMonkey; 11-14-2019 at 11:44 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2009 VSDwebdesign