Vintage Drum Forum the best vintage drum forum on the Internet - Vintage Drum History - Vintage Drum Questions

Go Back   Vintage Drum Forum > Vintage Cymbals

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-02-2018, 07:56 PM
thejohnlec thejohnlec is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 120
Default Cymbal identification

Hi all,

This may be a long shot. Any thoughts on manufacture? This is the best I could do on the stamp. Note the “made in” stamp in the circle.

Thanks in advance!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	F3987F48-15EC-4F9A-A8CF-40F095E06EF6.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	45.5 KB
ID:	119815  
__________________
thejohnlec
Ohio Valley
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-02-2018, 08:24 PM
mlayton mlayton is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5,786
Default Re: Cymbal identification

Should be a UFIP cymbal made in Italy.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-02-2018, 09:23 PM
thejohnlec thejohnlec is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 120
Default Re: Cymbal identification

That looks right after seeing some images online. It’s weird that the “Made In” stamp is sideways...
__________________
thejohnlec
Ohio Valley
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-02-2018, 11:21 PM
Drumaholic Drumaholic is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,924
Default Re: Cymbal identification

Maybe they were looking at it sideways at when they stamped it.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-03-2018, 08:42 AM
thejohnlec thejohnlec is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 120
Default Re: Cymbal identification

Any possible window of manufacture dates based on that stamp? It’s about 18 inches, thin with a small but surprisingly clear bell, no cracks, and a trashy dry crash tone. It actually kinda works as a ride cymbal at lower volume too.
__________________
thejohnlec
Ohio Valley
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-03-2018, 11:56 AM
OddBall OddBall is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Boston MA.
Posts: 5,546
Default Re: Cymbal identification

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejohnlec View Post
Any possible window of manufacture dates based on that stamp? It’s about 18 inches, thin with a small but surprisingly clear bell, no cracks, and a trashy dry crash tone. It actually kinda works as a ride cymbal at lower volume too.
Your stamp is at the very last row on the bottom all the way to the left.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ufipstencil.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	131.4 KB
ID:	119839  
__________________
It`s a drum,.....Hit It !!

.....76/#XK9207 Phonic Sound Machine D454/D-505 snares !i
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-03-2018, 04:25 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
Vintage Drum Guru
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 1,520
Default Re: Cymbal identification

Quote:
Originally Posted by thejohnlec View Post
Any possible window of manufacture dates based on that stamp? It’s about 18 inches, thin with a small but surprisingly clear bell, no cracks, and a trashy dry crash tone. It actually kinda works as a ride cymbal at lower volume too.
That trademark stamp is called the Pyramid Stamp. I haven't been able to narrow down the manufacture years for these beyond saying 1950s to early 1960s and even those aren't certain. It's not that it is a secret, just that so far the people who have written things on UFIP history haven't attempted a proper timeline. I've collected up photo examples of the stamps which were in use after the Pyramid Stamp but I don't yet have evidence of when use of the Pyramid Stamp ended and the later styles began. The image OddBall posted above lists all of the brands UFIP produced over the years and includes post Pyramid trademarks they used for themselves like RITMO. All we need to do now is figure out the years associated with each of these and we're in business for a timeline.

Cymbals with a Pyramid Stamp often have the circular made in Italy applied as a separate stamp. Because it is applied separately the alignment of Made In Italy relative to the Pyramid portion can vary from cymbal to cymbal. This one has no Made In Italy stamped into it at all.



Seeing the rest of the cymbal might help determine whether yours looks more like the 1950s style with steep sided bell and distinctive small hammer face overhammering:



Note that a number of people see the swirl pattern on the bell of the 50s example I've shown and think that means Rotocasting. It does not. Italian cymbals were made with gravity casting until about 1974-78 (Pinksterboer, The Cymbal Book, p200 has 1978, Luca Luciano, Italian Vintage Drums and Cymbals, p130 has 1975). The gravity casting method is still distinct technology where the cymbal is cast in a mold in the shape of a cymbal. But rotating the mold came in long after the Pyramid stamp era.

I've had discussions with UK master cymbal maker Matt Nolan about the swirls on gravity cast cymbals and he says these are a form of lathe chatter and he's seen them form on cymbals while he has been lathing them. The pattern is more commonly found on Italian cymbals than ones from other regions, but the swirls are still found occasionally on cymbals produced in Turkey, China, and North America.

Alternatively, yours could be what we think represents a later one with a less steep sided bell and no overhammering. In fact, the hammering is so subtle that it is hard to spot any at all.



This is the same cymbal I photographed for the Pyramid photo above. In both of these photos you can see another form of lathe chatter which takes the form of more linear striations further out on the bow.

If you measure carefully you should find that your 18" cymbal is actually about 17.7" or 45 cm because these are manufactured to metric size rather than exact inch.
__________________
For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-03-2018, 10:18 PM
thejohnlec thejohnlec is offline
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 120
Default Re: Cymbal identification

Thanks so much for the great info. The cymbal is in our guitar player’s house. I’ll get a specific measurement (I estimated the 18” size) and will take a few more pics but, frankly, it closely resembles the cymbal in your last pic above. I did some quick research on Ufip and the pedigree is kinda fascinating. I had a pair of 13” Ufip hihats back in junior high school and kinda wish I still had them.

Thanks again!
__________________
thejohnlec
Ohio Valley
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2009 VSDwebdesign