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Old 07-02-2018, 05:04 PM
ardrummer ardrummer is offline
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Default 2 Pairs of Vintage Hi hats - Need Identification Help

I just got two pairs of Zildjian hats. Any help to identify the dates on these would be greatly appreciated! I will post the first set here and the 2nd pair below. thanks!
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Last edited by ardrummer; 07-02-2018 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 07-02-2018, 05:06 PM
ardrummer ardrummer is offline
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Default Re: 2 Pairs of Vintage Hi hats - Need Identification Help

2nd pair of Zildjian hats
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  #3  
Old 07-02-2018, 06:04 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: 2 Pairs of Vintage Hi hats - Need Identification Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardrummer View Post
I just got two pairs of Zildjian hats. Any help to identify the dates on these would be greatly appreciated! I will post the first set here and the 2nd pair below. thanks!
1960s Tall Stamp. Because:



but you can check that the stamp is 1.5" tall to be sure.
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Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here
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Old 07-02-2018, 06:05 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: 2 Pairs of Vintage Hi hats - Need Identification Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardrummer View Post
2nd pair of Zildjian hats
The 1970s stamp:

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For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here
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  #5  
Old 07-02-2018, 06:55 PM
ardrummer ardrummer is offline
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Default Re: 2 Pairs of Vintage Hi hats - Need Identification Help

Thanks so much! You are always a great help!
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:21 AM
OddBall OddBall is online now
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Default Re: 2 Pairs of Vintage Hi hats - Need Identification Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenstat View Post
1960s Tall Stamp. Because:



but you can check that the stamp is 1.5" tall to be sure.
I been staring at some of your examples lately and you are quite good at pointing out tiny differences. On this one I noticed the E in all the fonts. in Avedis the top of the E is longer than the bottom, then Genuine, the E is smaller font but the bottom is longer than the top, then in Made, the E is smaller but the top is longer than the bottom. Is this a reliable way to use to ID also ?
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Old 07-03-2018, 04:37 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: 2 Pairs of Vintage Hi hats - Need Identification Help

Could be useful as a diagnostic. I've got hundreds of images in my reference collection for each stamp, and in order to test how well the differences you have noted distinguish one die from another I have to look through them all and check. It might turn out to be another useful diagnostic between the 60s short stamp vs 60s tall stamp, and/or the mid 50s Large Stamp Type II (LS2). What I'd really like is another diagnostic test to distinguish the late 50s small stamps (A and B form) from the mid 50s Large Stamp Type III (LS3). I like to have 5 or more diagnostic points scattered around each stamp so that when it isn't pressed in very well you can still find something which you can use.
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For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here
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  #8  
Old 07-03-2018, 10:36 PM
OddBall OddBall is online now
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Default Re: 2 Pairs of Vintage Hi hats - Need Identification Help

Exactly why I asked you, I`ve no access to a bank of stamps/examples.
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  #9  
Old 07-06-2018, 05:14 PM
zenstat zenstat is offline
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Default Re: 2 Pairs of Vintage Hi hats - Need Identification Help

Just reporting back after a preliminary screen of the E shapes across Large Stamps, Small Stamps, 60s stamps and 70s stamps. Yes there are variations which might prove useful but you need a combination of very high quality photo and a very well pressed in stamp to evaluate the shapes. That means less than 40% of my examples allow a full evaluation. Here is an annotated example of what you noticed:



After doing 6 of these 1.5" tall 60s stamps it doesn't seem that the left side E of genuine has the longer bottom bar. Just the right side E of genuine. For comparison here is a Small Stamp (SSB variant) which shows all the arms of the Es are the same length.



There might be a slightly longer lower arm on the right side E of genuinE, but it is very subtle and hasn't appeared consistently enough in other Small Stamp examples I've done.

I've also shown the relative height of the Es in this Small Stamp annotation by copying the Es from the 3 different sections (in the order: avEdis, madE, gEnuine) together. The Small Stamp is coded LMS (for large medium small) in the system I developed. Some other stamps have different codings (like LSS), but I didn't come across anything which helped distinguish some of the tricky ones. Two years ago I spent a long time on this, but didn't really come up with much, and I haven't ever written it up.
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For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert, but for every fact there is not necessarily an equal and opposite fact (Thomas Sowell, 1995 in The Vision of the Anointed)

Paiste 602/Sound Creation research click here
Which K Stamp? A DIY tool click here
Old K prices and weights click here
Avedis Zildjian gallery and timeline click here
Old A prices and weights click here
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  #10  
Old 07-06-2018, 08:09 PM
patrick patrick is offline
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Default Re: 2 Pairs of Vintage Hi hats - Need Identification Help

Thank you, sir.

Patrick
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